Parallel MAFIA 61 - Fantastic Voyage - GAME OVER

[Daemon]

LIVING:
Diplomat (Submarine Captain)
Doro5 (Submarine Mechanic)

DEAD:
SunSun, Political Officer, is found dead in his bunk, with his throat slit. (n2p72)
Heffie, Radio Operator, is strangled by the misoginistic pigs tired of "Girl-powah" clishees. (d3p200)
Radwulf, Immunologist, is found shot in the back with a gun with a silencer. (n4p201)
StarmanDeluxe, Russian Scientist, is found dead in his room, where the mod killed him. (d4p243)
SlyRyGuy, Executive Officer, got lynched as a result of his dirty plotting and scheming. (d4p243)
ViolinMaestro, Laser Surgeon, is stabbed to death while shooting his SALG at
BeoneKnight, Photo Jurnalist, an undercover assasin aiming at killing the President. (n5p244)


Welcome! Since there are a few new players here, I will also post some general rules hoping that they won't be read here for the first time. The goal of the game should be clear enough: the mafia will have to get rid of the townies, and the village must cast out the mafia, whatever it's called. The means to do this are the votes, during the day, culminating with the lynch, and employing special abilities during the night. This is equally true in this duplex.

Generic rules:
1. Do not talk to anybody whatsoever about the game, OUTSIDE the game topic.
2. Dead men don't speak! If you're dead, don't say anything, however harmless it may seem.
3. It's forbidden to quote (or pretend to), in any extent, e-mails from the mod or other players.
4. If you don't post for about 7-10 days, you're in danger of being eliminated or replaced.
5. If you have any concerns regarding the game, talk to the mod, or wait until the game is over.
6. Use bold only to vote and unvote players during the game. vote: INTERNET STRANGER
7. Editing posts is allowed only to correct typos and bolds, and only within minutes from posting.
8. Only mafia players and those chosen by the mod are able to communicate during the night.
9. Obscene language and cloning (multiple accouns) will be followed by heavy punishment.

Local game rules:
1. 33% (rounded) of the votes are required for a deadline lynch (at the end of the day).
2. 50% (rounded up or +1) of the votes are required for an instant death (ends the day).
3. Role declarations are possible only after receiving 1/2 of the deadline req'd votes.
4. Game days last 5 normal days, game nights last 2. Starting hour: 10.00 (RO).
5. In case of vote ties or unsufficient deadline votes, nobody will get lynched.
6. The night results are returned at the end of the night and apply to the next day.
7. IT'S FORBIDDEN TO POST IN THE ROMANIAN GAME & TO TALK OUTSIDE THE GAME.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Area 51, sometime in the aftermath of the Cold War. A nuclear missile crisis just having been avoided, it looked like the Earth was resting and licking its wounds. It's not even remotely so. All of the sudden, the mighty, untouchable President of USA was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Chaos and anarchy might return unless something is done to restore the brain muscle that kept the world from anihilating itself. At a loss to find an alternative, the White House summoned an international elite group of scientists and experts to help implement alien technology, captured at the Roswell crash site. The goal: saving the President. The means: using higly advanced shrinking rays device to resize a rescue Submarine fitted with everything needed to navigate through the circulatory sistem of the President all the way to the tumor located in his brain, and eliminate it with surgical laser tools.

The team gathered, and in a matter of hours, the scientific curiosity got the best of them. In no time, the submarine was inside the USA leader. But, just as the adventure begins, the big, red, undisturbed for ages phone rings, right in the middle of the lab. The worst fear of the americans came to life: enemies of democracy, of USA, of the President, seized the opportunity and what was only a crazy dream before, it was turning into reality as the loud speaker of the phone spread the terrible news: the group responsible for the attempt to save the President was infiltrated by malicious agents. What else would they hope to accomplish other than making sure, first hand, that the President came out of the lab in a body bag?

Total and immediate quarantine was issued. Nobody was to leave or enter the Area 51 complex until this is sorted out, the very life of the President being threatened by a power intervention. Not knowing who to trust anymore, the state secret services placed the huge burden of exposing the infiltrated elements on the loyal people already inside the facilities. Let us follow the submarine crew trying to cope with the situation that they were informed about through the radio.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
As soon as they've heard the news on the ship radio, the crew was taken over by a deep silence. Hours passed until they started rasing their eyes from whatever they were doing. They began to look at each other with suspicion. Trust was nowhere to be found aboard the sub. That's the way the crew behaved as the night was setting in... at least on their watches.

NIGHT 01 - ends Feb 6th 10:00 hrs
Please send your targets to mafia61(@)salajan<.>ro.
Unsent targets will be lost.

GOOD LUCK!

[Daemon]

Unsettling is at least the way the crew felt amongst the dreaded news last night brought. They needed to feel secure if they were to do what they've set out to do, to rely on the person next to each other for support when the time came, and not to wonder endlessly if this one or that one is an infiltrated saboteur. Though, at least an apparent calm seemed to guide their actions in the morning, when all the crew members were present and accounted for.

The crew was also informed that outside, SirEdmund, a CIA agent, was found killed with a pistol shot in the head.

Nobody dies.

It's now Day 01. There are 9 players remaining. 3 votes for deadline lynch. 5 votes for instant lynch. 2 votes for role claims.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Good morning everyone. It seems that we have a good start so far. Anyone have any leads?

[doro5]

i have nothing important, but im starting to keep a table for all night results, role claims, accusations, etc.

[radwulf]

random vote: Sunsun

[Diplomat]

Anyone want to volunteer to translate key events and messages from the other side for us English-only speakers? It might come in useful in finding the traitors. So far I only see that a CIA agent has died over there and I presume he was on the good side.

[doro5]

are we supposed to know whats going on there? does it matter? and if so, isnt daemon supposed to tell us?
hmm...this is a very slow start.

[radwulf]

I volunteer to start [mis]translating as soon as all the other Romanian speakers on our side are dead. :)
I'm assumming we're allowed to discuss the other game in here--I don't think that would be totally "theme-unrealistic" as some communication between crew members and outside would be expected. And it would make for a pretty unique experience: first time I can comment on and maybe influence a game I'm not playing in. :)

To anyone from the other side reading this: how can someone not be sure if they're voting random or not? And how can someone RANDOMLY vote someone else for being too active in the first day?

[doro5]

i think its a better idea to focus on our game.
come on people, the romanian game is loaded already while we havent gotten anywhere!

[Diplomat]

Doro, if I was Romanian, I'd be checking the other game as much as I'd be reading this one. I don't know exactly how knowing what's going on over there could help us. Maybe it would provide hints as to the plausibility of claimed roles, for example. We know that the two games are somehow interdependent. I expected for people from both sides to be monitoring both discussions even before the game started.

Radwulf, I think you should do it, seeing as how you like to translate stuff. :) Actually, your reluctance to volunteer seems a bit suspicious to me. Are you afraid that we'd tell if you're a bad guy based on the bias of your paraphrasing the other side's events? By bias, I mean the accuracy of your translation and what things you determine to be important. Is that why you don't want to try when other Romanian speakers are around?

[doro5]

I don't know exactly how knowing what's going on over there could help us.
but if it does have some major effect on our game, shouldnt daemon be telling us what's happening? he would not rely on our translation abilities.

[HEffie]

Doro's got a good point, but since the games are parallel..any relevant info would help. I also vote radwulf for translation and I will keep an eye on it's accuracy as I'm sure all other Romanian speakers would. So go ahead radwulf :)

[beoneknight]

aight, so it's settled, radwulf will translate.

also, vote starmandeluxe

[Sly Ry Guy]

Doro, the two main reasons that the RO game is going a lot faster are A, because they have more people, 13 compared to our 9, and that Romanian time is 10 hours faster than PST, and 7 hours faster than EST. The day started at midnight today, for me, and most people aren't up at that ungodly hour.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Here's a question regarding the interrelatedness of the two games. If we insta-lynch someone on this game, does the RO game immediately end as well? I think it would be very confusing if we were on Night 7 while the RO game was on Day 5. Does anyone know?

Also, are we missing a player? According to the post, it says that there are 10 players remaining, but there are only 9 names on the roster. Did someone go AWOL?

Oh, and while I'm on a role, here's a vote for violin, since he's the only player who has not either posted or been voted.

[violinmaestro001]

good morning all. What an interesting morning this is. I wont get into the translations and stuff, since i dont know what all is involed legally or not. Il wait for clarifications on this part for sure. no random vote either, since i dont like random votes. There is a purpose in every vote....

[Sly Ry Guy]

That's what I like to see, I ask, and I get results. Almost like AskJeeves. Now we just need to get SunSun and Starman in here.

[violinmaestro001]

Dear Sly ry guy. I dont like it when people are on a roll. makes me think of drugs aka acid or speed. So let me stop your "role" right here, back at you.
Vote Sly Ry Guy.
Reason? read the above. :o

[Sly Ry Guy]

Did I honestly just get voted for because someone thinks I'm high? Is that in any way shape or form a decent reason, especially after I had just voted for Violin? I think not.

[violinmaestro001]

Encarta meaning for being on a roll.
on a roll :enjoying a period of good luck or
of doing something well (informal)

ive played with your word and twisted it a bit. You took the bait. Thats all


role
noun
Definitions:

1. acting part: an individual part in a play, movie, opera, or other performance

2. specific function: the usual or expected function of somebody or something, or the part somebody or something plays in an action or event

3. part played in social context: the part played by somebody in a given social context, with any characteristic or expected pattern of behavior that it entails

Which one of these did you mean while on a "role"?
man , if you cant take a joke, im sorry, one must relax this is mafia after all

[doro5]

Doro, the two main reasons that the RO game is going a lot faster are A, because they have more people, 13 compared to our 9, and that Romanian time is 10 hours faster than PST, and 7 hours faster than EST. The day started at midnight today, for me, and most people aren't up at that ungodly hour.
ohh.....youre right, how did i forget that.
i still dont understand the porpse of random voting. what is it, for fun?

[Sly Ry Guy]

I understand now. English a very complicated language, and we all make mistakes. But let's just say you weren't the first person to 'accuse' me of being high when I wasn't. BTW, thank you for the definition of both role and roll.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Random voting is simply voting done at the beginning of a game to get things moving along. Usually, at the beginning of the game, no one has information that they can give out, and if they do, many often want to keep it to themselves. While it is called "random" voting, many, such as ViolinMaestro and myself, believe that no vote is random. So random voting simply attempts to get the game moving along.

[doro5]

oh, well, lets see if your "awakining the asleep" system works. by the way, there are already votes on sunsun and starmandeluxe.

[violinmaestro001]

ok, now all jokes aside.
But let's just say you weren't the first person to 'accuse' me of being high when I wasn't.
sorry mate, i didnt write that, and i dont intend to investigate this matter any further.
While it is called "random" voting, many, such as ViolinMaestro and myself, believe that no vote is random.
I am suprized to learn that you believe the same truths as myself and am glad to see that we are both on the same side as far as random voting goes .
what about our votes now? keep'em, or dump'em.

[Daemon]

Whoopsie, I was listening over and over again to some 30 seconds from "Walk the line" with the duet of Johnny Cash and June Carter, singing "Time's A Wastin", and I got carried away :). Anyway, I'm so absolutely frustrated about that specific song not ever being recorded by the two because of the copyright issues w/ June's ex-husband Carl Smith, and also Joaquin and Reese only sang the piece for the movie... It's nowhere to be found, it's making me crazy.

There are 9 players remaining.
5 votes for instant lynch. 3 votes for deadline lynch. 2 votes for role claims.

As for the Romanian game, you can do whatever pleases you or bothers the enemy, short from posting directly there.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Thank you for clearing that up somewhat Daemon

[doro5]

well, after thats been settled, we can continue with our game.

[SUNSUN101]

hey guys. i'd like to say thank you to radwulf for making me the first player to have a vote in mafia 61! and srry for not posting i've been busy. but im good now. good luck everyone

[radwulf]

You're welcome Sunsun! unvote: Sunsun And I'd like to thank Heffie for volunteering my own very precious time.
vote: Diplomat for making an accusation based on a sentence whose only purpose was very clearly humor. And for the ridiculous idea that an exercise in translation would more easily reveal someone's affiliation than the behavior in this game.

[StarmanDeluxe]

Sorry about the delay in my arriving here; I'm ready and raring to go now.

Looks like random voting has been adequately taken care of for now.

PS- Daemon, for clarity and ease, could we get a list of alive and dead players in the Romanian game on this thread, too?

[Sly Ry Guy]

Unvote Violin

I would like to vote radwulf for over reacting to a comment that was likely just as much in humor, and was not even a vote. Also, translating bias might in fact be a sign as to whether or not someone is clean, but that is probably unlikely.

[violinmaestro001]

Unvote Sly Ry Guy. Im just going to sit in for a while, no votes.
Both Diplomat and Radwulf have a point on the subject of argument. But is it relevant to what is happening between us here in the english corner? i mean we cant kill them by simply voting them, so i think we should concentrate more on our people here, and less on what's going on in the romanian corner.

[violinmaestro001]

off topic. you guys we must celebrate!!! its my 1000'd post . :cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[radwulf]

I would like to vote radwulf for over reacting to a comment that was likely just as much in humor, and was not even a vote.
Hey buddy, I've got news for you. We're not voting people who react to scum behavior; a vote rewarding such behavior is never overreacting. We're voting for people who exhibit symptoms of scum affiliation: crap logic (such as yours), false accusations (such as Diplomat's), voting with a fake reason (you again). Diplomat alluded to my translation hobby (the joke), put the smilie, then went on to mount a serious, one-paragraph accusation against me based on an idea you admit is improbable.

**** Finger of suspicion: SLY RY GUY **** for malicious, illogical voting.

[HEffie]

I, for once, would also be interested in Diplomat's response...particularly because it did, in fact, seem genuine.

[Diplomat]

vote: Diplomat for making an accusation based on a sentence whose only purpose was very clearly humor. And for the ridiculous idea that an exercise in translation would more easily reveal someone's affiliation than the behavior in this game. Man, you just have to take everything seriously, don't you? I got news for you. It was not an accusation. It was more like a random probe for scumminess, done for essentially the same reason as a random vote. I had no real reason to suspect you when I posted that message, not even for an FOS. But now because of your overreaction I do. You could have said that you simply don't have the time to do the translating job, and that wouldn't have raised my suspicion. But I think you've fallen for my trap instead. Your vote doesn't make sense, and neither does your suspicion of SlyRy for saying the obvious. I don't see why I should be a bad guy according to your reasoning. It doesn't seem like people are buying your logic either. Honestly, why would I go provoking people on the first day if I was a traitor? On the contrary, I believe that your forceful rebuttal fits with your normal behavior when someone rightfully accuses you of being scum.
Vote: radwulf

[doro5]

he has a point, you know. but i still think its a bit early to vote, and radwulf already has two votes, so i wont.

[radwulf]

It was not an accusation. It was more like a random probe for scumminess, done for essentially the same reason as a random vote.
I had no real reason to suspect you when I posted that message, not even for an FOS.
Actually, your reluctance to volunteer seems a bit suspicious to me.
Can anyone make a case that he's not contradicting himself?

And probing for scuminess is a very good thing, UNLESS it is based on illogical statements, improbable scenarios, or lies. It is unreasonable to make an illogical accusation and when somebody calls you on it, to call it a trap. A trap for whom? Someone you admit you had no reason to suspect? How can you be so confident you can correctly judge my reaction to your trap, knowing that I'm a player who does not tolerate nonsense and logic abuse? Why would a townie start the game by setting-up a trap for someone he does not know anything about? NO, it is not the same thing as a random vote. A random vote is totally different from saying "I think X is suspicious for not doing this time-consumming thing that might show us he's scum". With the former, you're just voting someone. With the latter, you're lying! And as a townie, lying is the one thing you're not allowed to do. The town's main weapon is finding the liars, finding the people who put up a show, whose posts contain fake actions, fake thinking, fake accusations and baseless voting. As a townie, if you lie, you lead the other townies astray. If you lie, the town has the right, the duty to treat you as a scumbag, because chances are, you are one!

Probing for scuminess is done by questioning motivation, lies, contradictions and abuse of logic. NOT by making a false accusation and then calling the accusation a trap and accusing the accused of overreacting. Scum!

As for whose logic people are buying, have some patience, mafia boy. The town has not spoken yet.

[violinmaestro001]

Radwulf, things are not looking good for you wether your saying the truth or not. I dont know, but all it takes is 1 max 2 votes, and its time to show your role. i myself dont really like the way your responding you sound very much accusing everyone(it seems that way from the way you are writing),your kinda digging yourself a hole right now. Il be back though this evening with more specifics. Im not taking sides at the moment, but i am leaning a bit.

[Diplomat]

A trap for whom? Someone you admit you had no reason to suspect? I didn't admit I had absolutely no reason to suspect you. I said I had no real, or substantial, reason. There is no contradiction. I deliberately put the qualifier a bit before "suspicious" in msg 12. The bias thing was only one, albeit unlikely, possibility that occurred to me for your reluctance to do the translation task, just like it's a small possibility that you'd stumble upon a bad guy in a typical random vote. I was interested in your reply, but I wasn't betting the house that it would lead anywhere. I was expecting you to say that you simply don't have time to do it.

How can you be so confident you can correctly judge my reaction to your trap, knowing that I'm a player who does not tolerate nonsense and logic abuse? Well, for one thing, your paranoid knee-jerk overreaction in voting for me. I didn't even give you an FOS. Also, your bold assertion that the only reason for my "accusation" was that I'm scum, as in calling me "mafia boy". It didn't occur to you that it might have been a mistake on the part of a townie. Always a telltale sign when a bad guy deflects charges onto his accuser rather than trying to determine who the mafia really is.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm by no means convinced about you. That's why I'm not going to lobby the town, er, the sub, to vote you off. I think everyone should do what they think is right.
With the latter, you're lying! And as a townie, lying is the one thing you're not allowed to do. First off, I'm not lying. But who says townies are not allowed to lie? You can bluff someone, which is a form of lying, and see their reaction. Most other lying is unacceptable.
Probing for scuminess is done by questioning motivation, lies, contradictions and abuse of logic. NOT by making a false accusation and then calling the accusation a trap and accusing the accused of overreacting. Scum! A question of semantics, really.

[doro5]

radwulf, you seem to be failing clarifying your name. try to be careful for what you say, and how you say it. miss-interpretations might cause innocents to be lynched. remember, one vote separates you from your lynch.
if you go back to the start of this argument, you find it was caused by miss-interpretations - radwulf of diplomat & vice versa.

[radwulf]

violinmaestro:
I am not accusing everyone. So far I've only accused two people, and they're both baselessly voting for an innocent subbie. My role will be told if/when a majority of the people think I'm the number one suspect, not earlier.

I don't want this to cascade into a sentence-by-sentence rebuttal-of-the-rebuttal argue-the-semantics type of debate. The bottom line is this: Diplomat accused me of not volunteering. Even though he KNEW (as he admitted just above) that the perfectly logical reason for not volunteering was my lack of time and the uselessness of the task, he suggested I was not doing it for the very ridiculous reason that I'd give myself away as mafiascum through translation bias.

No matter how subtly or noncomittally or diplomatically an accusation is made (it can be just a suggestion or a hint) if it is BASED ON A FAKE/MADE-UP/RIDICULOUS REASON, it's a very serious transgression. Why? Because fake reasons indicate pretend-thinking (which is what Mafia has to do the whole game). That's why Diplomat's mistake is much more likely to a be a scum's mistake--because his reason was so illogical. Also a cautious mafioso is much more likely to disguise accusations as hints and suggestions. If other people take up his idea, an innocent person is lynched. If he's called on it, he'll claim he never accused anybody and that he was merely making-a-guess/joking/testing-reactions/probing etc just like Diplomat does now.

In the unlikely case you're not Mafia, Diplomat, you have to review and try to understand how your "bit" of suspicion backed by an incredibly shaky reason gave me not a reason, but a duty to call you on it.

[doro5]

i think this whole argument is pointless. i still dont have enough reasons to vote any of you.
three days people!

[SUNSUN101]

wow! so much in so little time. i dont see the need to be accusing and voting people off untill we have a bit more info (it is only the first day) on roles and such.. b/c its pointless to be arguing for something as little as translating the other game that might have no importance to ours.

and diplomat, i dont see the need for radwulf to be translating the other side when u know he hasn't got the time. u seemed like u would translate though


Radwulf, I think you should do it, seeing as how you like to translate stuff. :) Actually, your reluctance to volunteer seems a bit suspicious to me. Are you afraid that we'd tell if you're a bad guy based on the bias of your paraphrasing the other side's events? By bias, I mean the accuracy of your translation and what things you determine to be important. Is that why you don't want to try when other Romanian speakers are around?

so if radwulf were to translate, u would check everything he is translating? so y dont u just translate?
and one more person to say something to. sly ry guy! why have you not posted ever since radwulf fos'd you? you were posting like every hour except when it seems like you were at school, sleeping and at after school activities. now it has been over 24hrs and u havent posted.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Doro, perhaps you should be more active in your posts instead of constantly asking the others to hurry up and make a point. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" as Gandhi said. So, if you want more action, make more action instead of standing on the sidelines looking for someone to yell at.

[Sly Ry Guy]

As for SunSun, I did not have a chance to repost a counter argument to Radwulf, and at the current moment in time, I do not need to. Radwulf posted at 8:30 PST, and I, like most human beings my age, have homework and other tasks to take care of. Also, according to my math, I posted within the 24 hour time frame, (23 hours and 58 minutes to be exact.)

Also, I believe Diplomat is unfamiliar with the Romanian language (although i do believe he speaks Spanish), so unless this site changed its name to The Spanish Mafia Club while I was gone, I don't think he'll be too helpful for translating.

[Diplomat]

Sunsun, this is no longer an argument about translating the parallel discussion or not. It's about what happened after I inquired about it. I'm not doing the task it because I don't speak Romanian. (Thanks Sly Ry for pointing that out.) What Radwulf said was that he doesn't want to translate in the presence of other Romanians. That struck me as a little peculiar because a bad guy might not want to do that job because he doesn't want to attract attention to himself, or because he doesn't want others to check what he chose as important and what he left out, or because the effort might force him to somehow reveal himself and his buddies. So I decided to follow up on it in the form of a friendly prod, just in case. It doesn't matter if lack of time is the more likely reason. On the first day, you grab every possible lead by probing, prodding, taunting, teasing, bluffing, etc. Radwulf inferred some meaning from my inquiry that wasn't there and decided to come at me full force, as from my experience a bad guy often does.
In the unlikely case you're not Mafia, Diplomat, you have to review and try to understand how your "bit" of suspicion backed by an incredibly shaky reason gave me not a reason, but a duty to call you on it. So now you're being apologetic about your vote for me? You seem to be saying, I don't really think you're mafia, but the way I already set up my logical framework compels me to keep my vote for you. As for the criteria that you outlined of singling out a mafioso based on his logical inconsistencies, IMO that merely reflects someone's playing style, not necessarily his guilty. So either your technique is severely flawed, or you're guilty. For now, I'm staying with the latter.

[radwulf]

What Radwulf said was that he doesn't want to translate in the presence of other Romanians. That struck me as a little peculiar because a bad guy
might not want to do that job because he doesn't want to attract attention to himself, or because he doesn't want others to check what he chose as important and
what he left out, or because the effort might force him to somehow reveal himself and his buddies.
But it might also give him the chance to show everyone what a helpful townie he is, by translating accurately. If the time wasn't an issue, an experienced mafia player might have more to gain than to lose from assuming the translator role.

So I decided to follow up on it in the form of a friendly prod, just in case. It doesn't matter if lack of time is the more likely reason. On the first day, you grab every possible lead by probing, prodding, taunting, teasing, bluffing, etc. Radwulf
inferred some meaning from my inquiry that wasn't there and decided to come at me full force, as from my experience a bad guy often does.
We could debate playing style theory, but it'd be pointless. The bottom line is the results. If by probing, prodding, taunting, teasing, bluffing, you mean: set up a false accusation based on an extremely improbable situation, then switch
gears and accuse your accuser for defending himself; then your opening moves deserve condemnation and their true motivation needs to be questioned.

So now you're being apologetic about your vote for me? You seem to be saying, I don't really think you're mafia, but the way I already set up my logical
framework compels me to keep my vote for you.
No, I'm not. I'm saying exactly what I'm saying, the rest is wishful thinking on your part.

As for the criteria that you outlined of singling out a mafioso based on his logical inconsistencies, IMO that merely reflects someone's playing style, not
necessarily his guilty. So either your technique is severely flawed, or you're guilty. For now, I'm staying with the latter.
My criteria has nothing to do with style. It has everything to do with the results of your moves. If you lie, bring out false accusations, accuse innocent people when they defend against them, chances are you're scum.

Radwulf inferred some meaning from my inquiry that wasn't there and decided to come at me full force, as from my experience a bad guy often does.
The meaning was there, in your own words: you announced suspicion. I showed that the reason for your suspicion was flawed. To that, you reacted by saying I reacted too hard. You've played dozens of games with me, and you know perfectly well I ALWAYS react hard when I see what I consider unjustified accusations against me. You know that, but insist on telling us how in your playing experience it's always and only the bad guys who react hard to accusations. Why do you overlook what you know very well about my playing style? The most logical answer is because your role does not permit you to be objective about it.

[doro5]

In the unlikely case you're not Mafia, Diplomat, you have to review and try to understand how your "bit" of suspicion backed by an incredibly shaky reason gave me not a reason, but a duty to call you on it.So now you're being apologetic about your vote for me? You seem to be saying, I don't really think you're mafia, but the way I already set up my logical framework compels me to keep my vote for you.
notice one little word: unlikely. he meant (i think) that either you are mafia, and that there is a little chance that you aren't, and if thats true, than you must understand that you acted suspiciously.

So I decided to follow up on it in the form of a friendly prod, just in case. It doesn't matter if lack of time is the more likely reason. On the first day, you grab every possible lead by probing, prodding, taunting, teasing, bluffing, etc. Radwulf inferred some meaning from my inquiry that wasn't there and decided to come at me full force, as from my experience a bad guy often does.

If by probing, prodding, taunting, teasing, bluffing, you mean: set up a false accusation based on an extremely improbable situation, then switch
gears and accuse your accuser for defending himself; then your opening moves deserve condemnation and their true motivation needs to be questioned.
why? it seems like a reasonable trap to put to someone to check if he is mafia.
now, lets check our options, shall we? either neither of you are mafia, and this whole argument is pointless, or radwulf is a mafia that accidentally said something that made him look guilty and now hes trying to clearfy his name, or Diplomat is a mafia who noticed that someone said something that might make him look like mafia, so hes trying to blame him, or perhaps both of you are very smart mafia, which is unlikely.

[radwulf]

Doro5, your interpretation of what I said is correct.

Diplomat is trying to sell you this trap idea, and frankly I'm very suprised some of you seem to be buying it. The result of a trap must be something objective and tangible, an act, a contradiction, behavior that screams "he's mafia". Now where's any of that in my reaction to his so called trap?

Diplomat knows very well I always react hard to anything that to me appears to be unjustified accusation. He's played a lot of games to know that much about my particular style. Despite that, he claims his "trap" got me reacting too hard. Why? Why utter clichee nonsense such as "bad guys always accuse their accusers" when I accused my accuser with logic and facts, and when my reaction was not any different than my typical reaction in such a situation?

[Diplomat]

Diplomat is trying to sell you this trap idea, and frankly I'm very suprised some of you seem to be buying it. The result of a trap must be something objective and tangible, an act, a contradiction, behavior that screams "he's mafia". Now where's any of that in my reaction to his so called trap? Now that right there is a blatant straw man fallacy. I only said 'trap' once, and it did not mean what Radwulf says it meant. The meaning of any message or utterance is always relative to the speaker, not to the listener. Here Radwulf clearly mischaracterizes what I meant by that word by imposing his own semantics on it, and presents a false contradiction. In reality, I was merely looking for a synonym for "probe", which might not have been the best choice of words. In that sense, a random vote is a type of "trap". And I'm not trying to sell this idea. I'm just justifying my vote.

As for Radwulf's "in case he's not Mafia" statement, I don't know what it is, but it just sounds very odd to me, probably because I know my own role. What's the point of it, if not to excuse a monumental mistake? Because I know my own innocense, it's clear to me that if Radwulf was innocent too, he'd be making that monumental mistake, which is very unlike his usual playing style.

[doro5]

As for Radwulf's "in case he's not Mafia" statement, I don't know what it is, but it just sounds very odd to me, probably because I know my own role. What's the point of it, if not to excuse a monumental mistake? Because I know my own innocense, it's clear to me that if Radwulf was innocent too, he'd be making that monumental mistake, which is very unlike his usual playing style.
whats not to understand? radwulf meant (once again, my opinion) that he thinks that your mafia because... and if he is wrong, which he says is unlikely, then you need to understand that you look guilty because...
anyway, we need to wrap this thing up, by getting to one of the options that I mentioned earlier, or at least to get to a ceace fire between you to.

[doro5]

Diplomat is trying to sell you this trap idea, and frankly I'm very suprised some of you seem to be buying it. The result of a trap must be something objective and tangible, an act, a contradiction, behavior that screams "he's mafia". Now where's any of that in my reaction to his so called trap?
not always true. there could be many of things that are actually only parts of bigger things. not every trap must make something look obvious, it might only be needed to give small hints, that will get together with other hints to become a conclusion. after all, a lot of whispers will eventually become screams.

[radwulf]

Doro5: ok, even if the results of a successful "trap" do not have to be spectacular, there has to be SOMETHING. But the result of Diplomat's trap/probe is behavior totally predictible and consistent with my playing style and history.

Diplomat: it's not my fault that to you "trap" does not mean what it means for the rest of us. It is your responsibility to choose your words in a way that will get your intended meaning across. I don't think anybody here can read minds. So when you said this:
But I think you've fallen for my trap instead.
me and others assumed you are talking about a deliberate attempt to (see if you can) cause someone's downfall. Your motivation for doing that is still being debated.

But let's leave semantics aside. You are ignoring the essence of my objection to your trap/probe argument. Which is simply: I did not overreact to your trap/probe; I did what I always do when confronted by bad logic directed against me. You claim overreaction is a typical bad-guy response, ignoring (you have an acute case of ignoritis this game) the fact that MY typical reaction to what I consider unjustified accusation and bad logic is ALWAYS vehement, tough, uncompromising.


For the rest of you, here is the condensed debate: Diplomat came up with a fake accusation. When I showed his accusation rested on highly improbable reasoning, he called the accusation a trap/probe and accused me of overreacting. When I showed that my tough reaction to accusation based on bad logic was very typical of ME, NOT of bad-guys, and asked him how is it possible he would overlook that, he started debating semantics.

[SUNSUN101]

well radwulf, you do have two votes so why dont u just role claim?

[HEffie]

Well now that you've both managed to talk eachother out of breathing..as usual, what are we to conclude here? You're both bringing up points and arguing over them as if they were somewhat relevant but I mean, you could pick at pretty much any argument like this and talk about it forever at this point. If the goal was to cloud everyone over, I'm sure you've achieved that with an outflow of information and words. Where's beoneknight? vote: beoneknight I vote for focusing attention on other people that might be otherwise reading your continuous posts and cackling in silence at being unacknowledged this entire day.
As for translating to begin with, I don't know that it would even be relevant-unless we all conclude that perhaps there are some of the same roles, but I doubt the mod would do that as I know how keen he is on giving mafia a chance at creating roles. So just leave it be for now, and all that extra logic that comes with asking questions.

[HEffie]

P.S. I don't think radwulf or Diplomat should be revealing roles at this point in the game for the reasons I've stated above, and yes, even though it's a small game..I'd be tempted to opt for such actions taking place tomorrow for example when perhaps people gain more knowledge about things...like the game and not vote people off or role claim because of certain "intonations" detected in phrases that people may have made just to mean that, what they said.

[doro5]

i agree with HEffie.
im going to the hermon (the only snowy place in israel) for the weekend, so goodbye!

[Diplomat]

Yeah, this is becoming pretty pointless since no one else is chiming in or taking sides. Where did everyone go? You're right, Heffie, if Radwulf and I are both wrong, the bad guys must be laughing their heads off. In any case, Radwulf is sure to get investigated now and then we'll have hard evidence if he's guilty. I'll keep my vote in case he wants to claim a role.

[violinmaestro001]

at first i was inclined to lean to think that radwulf may be on the mafia side, simply from the way he reacted in his post as a return to diplomats posts. but i think that has changed to where i do not think the same anymore. this beeing said i feel that we are a bit stuck on this subject still and not really going anywhere with it. correct me if im wrong, but theres only about the 5 of us posting consistently and the rest is kinda asleep, or jus watching what is happening. i dont quite like it...well time for me to get to rehearsal... i shall return this evening with more perhaps.

[Diplomat]

I might not get a chance to post before the deadline, and one more vote is required for a deadline lynch. So to prevent a possible last-minute bandwagon by the mafia, I should unvote: radwulf.

[violinmaestro001]

vote Beoneknight. for the same reason as Heffie, which is that u came in, voted a player and dissapeared. Its not fair. Stay in the game.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I think it would only be fair to spread around the voting, and unvote radwulf and vote starman, also for inactivity.

[beoneknight]

first things first:

unvote starman. vote violinmaestro second vote on me places me in risk of some mafia adding one last vote at the end of the day what are you trying to accomplish by it? do you want a role claim? or are you activly tryin to lynch me???? neither one makes sense. explain yourself.

FOS. slyry, since he did the same thing to starman.

waiting on response from violin maestro......

[Sly Ry Guy]

Oh, I did not notice that Starman already had two votes. That problem appears to be solved. I will try to pay more attention in the future.

[StarmanDeluxe]

Sorry about inactivity. Some business has just popped up... I'll be much more active starting, say, Tuesday.

Regardless, nobody's behavior seems terribly outlandish to me at the moment... I'm inclined to believe radwulf over Diplomat at the moment, but not enough to vote for anybody.

[radwulf]

In any case, Radwulf is sure to get investigated now and then we'll have hard evidence if he's guilty.
I see you're now trying to manipulate the investigators, instead of defending yourself. You still did not explain why you labeled my reaction as "typical for a bad guy, in your experience" as opposed to typical for me, which from your experience you should know very well.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
It seems that the situation did not affect the submarine crew as much as it did to the people outside. Except for a couple of more agitated crewmen, everybody else seemed to go about their mission routine. That still might be good news for the poor President, the object, the subject and the only helpless member of this double mission.

Outside, the panic made yet another victim, Dariux, a Secret Service Agent, lynched on account of his strong, fear inspiring appearance.

Nobody dies.

NIGHT 02 - ends Feb 13th 10:00 hrs
Please send your targets to mafia61(@)salajan<.>ro.
Unsent targets will be lost.

[Daemon]

It appears that the submarine is not such a safe place to be, after all. Amidst tones of pieces of paper containing possible and impossible scenarios to end the crisis, SunSun001 was found dead, with his throat slit. The horor of the scene terrified the men. Someone even was obsessively trying to clean the blood from the deceased's notes, probably hoping to find salvation written on a piece of bloody paper.

It was not looking good outside also. In fact, it was worse. Crisd, a Russian Scientist was found shot in the head inside his quarters, surrounded by ultra-high-tech equipment that transformed the room into a clandestine lab. Also, Coco was diagnosed with 'poison', and the doctors did not gave him more than a day to live.

SunSun, Political Officer, is found dead in his bunk, with his throat slit.

It's now Day 02. There are 8 players remaining.
5 votes for instant lynch. 3 votes for deadline lynch. 2 votes for role claims.

[doro5]

Our good start seems to becoming worse. Continuing last day, I vote beoneknight for only popping up after HEffie pointed out that he is inactive.

[Sly Ry Guy]

FOS Starman. He did the exact same thing. Popped in after I voted him for inactivity.

[violinmaestro001]

Brother Beoneknight. you want explanation, well here it is

second vote on me places me in risk of some mafia adding one last vote at the end of the day what are you trying to accomplish by it? do you want a role claim? or are you activly tryin to lynch me???? neither one makes sense. explain yourself.

What doesnt make sense, is all the questions you are asking.
1. you werent posting all the long(with the exeption of introductory post)
2. i voted you to see if you are reading and not posting or neither of the 2. And it confirmed that you are in the backround, since you replied quite quick and quite furiosly and voted me(unlike when no one was talking about you). I like that attitude, but its the wrong kind of attitude.
Let me say this. i didnt even know that the day was comming to an end quickly after i posted. Not to say that i should be ashamed or happy for this, but you my friend, you knew exactly when the day was over and were worried for some reason about your second vote. so, to stop this , yes i do want a role claim from you.
Vote Beoneknight

[radwulf]

vote: Diplomat

[doro5]

is there a special reason, or is it in continue to last days argument?

[Diplomat]

OK, then, vote: Radwulf. That's for constantly and repeatedly mischaracterizing and distorting what I was saying yesterday. Beyond that, I think you'd be making a spectacular mistake by leading the effort to vote me off, which you're not known to do, my friend. That's why I don't think it's a mistake, but a deliberate attempt.

[Diplomat]

You do have a good point, Maestro. Beoneknight was inactive for practically the entire day, but as soon as you voted for him, he came out of hiding to voice his objection. That makes me think he was lurking behind the scenes all day long, but never bothered to comment on the debate between radwulf and me, or other things. Did he not want to participate because taking one side would work against his mafia partner and taking the other wouldn't make a whole lot of sense? For that, I should
FOS: Beoneknight

[Sly Ry Guy]

Radwulf, you simply voted Diplomat again without bringing any more information or reasons to the table. While I do not believe you deserve a vote at this moment, you do deserve an FOS Radwulf. I suggest you bring some new points instead of repeatedly trying blindly to lynch a townie.

[HEffie]

Go easy with the voting eh? It seems like one vote may easily kill off someone who hasn't had a chance to speak yet. Not being present at the right time is hardly a reason to vote someone off and then pretend like you didn't know that your vote caused the lynching so...calm it down. I'm also curious as to your determination radwulf.

[beoneknight]

i didnt even know that the day was comming to an end quickly after i posted. Not to say that i should be ashamed or happy for this

for someone who kept that tight of a schedule on how many posts everyoen had, and who posted when and how long ago, it is not believable that you did not know when the deadline was. You snuck in a vote right before the deadline with the hope that i would not have a chance to respond.

Heff's vote was cast on me based on my not posting. You on the ohter hand snuck in a vote right before the end of the deadline, u did the classic mafia bandwagoning, with the hope that someone else would add another vote before my chance of resonding. (3 votes was enough to lynch)

vote violinmaestro


it's currently 2:30 am... i'll be back to post in 24 hrs or so....

[Diplomat]

for someone who kept that tight of a schedule on how many posts everyoen had, and who posted when and how long ago, it is not believable that you did not know when the deadline was. Beone, what do you mean by calling Maestro someone who kept a schedule of the number of everyone's posts? It was quite clear to everyone that you posted in the beginning, disappeared, and then came back at the end of the day. To me, he seemed sincere when he said he didn't know when the deadline was. However, right before Maestro voted for you, I had retracted my own vote because I hadn't had a chance to monitor what would be happening as the day ended and didn't want a bandwagon lynch. So if Maestro read my message, he should have had some indication that the deadline was approaching. Just my thoughts.

As for radwulf, it's strange that he didn't give any reasons for his vote. If he's a traitor, maybe he's just waiting for an investigator to denounce him or something. Or maybe something had happened during the night that's restricting him from talking. Hmm...

[doro5]

Or maybe something had happened during the night that's restricting him from talking. Hmm...
well, i doubt that he wouldnt of talked by now, so i guess something is preventing him from talking (perhaps like the "poison" coco had in the romanian side).

[Diplomat]

Uh, am I missing something? What poison are you talking about?

[radwulf]

My reasons for voting Diplomat are the same as yesterday: baseless accusation and falsely calling my reaction 'overreacting' despite knowing my playing style very well. Sly Ry Guy, it's funny that you ask me to create out of thin air more reasons for voting Diplomat, even though you have not reacted with arguments to those I already brought against him.

Diplomat, I'm still waiting for you to defend yourself against the most serious accusation I brought against you.

I do agree that it's suspicious of Beoneknight not to have referred at all at yesterday's main developments; his inactivity until the moment he was voted is also a valid point. Beoneknight, it might be a good idea for you to claim a role at this point, as there is some consensus for the accusations brought against you.

[Diplomat]

Radwulf, you still can't be serious about waiting for me to defend myself. Defend myself from what? I think everyone but you sees my original remark about your not volunteering for it was, which is nothing to get wound up about, not the way you keep characterizing it. I never had more than your vote on me this entire time, which says a lot about how much people agree with you. On the contrary, most people who expressed their opinion yesterday were inclined to side with me. So, again, what is it that I have to defend myself against?

[doro5]

What poison are you talking about?
didnt you read daemons post?
Also, Coco was diagnosed with 'poison', and the doctors did not gave him more than a day to live.
what is it that I have to defend myself against?
I think that he means that hes continuing his argue from last day, as if it was the same day.
radwulf, didnt you & diplomat already resolve this argument?
and does anyone have any helpful info?
and BOK, your argument is still not enough. a role claim might be a good possibility.

[violinmaestro001]

Dear Beoneknioght. you are getting worked up on the little things such as my knowledge or its exacticity, of the end of the day. I would worry more about your well being at this point. you have 2 votes, couple of fingers pointing at you, i would start talking, and talking the truth, that is. Me on the other hand?


Heff's vote was cast on me based on my not posting. You on the ohter hand snuck in a vote right before the end of the deadline, u did the classic mafia bandwagoning,


ok, your keep missing the point, again, back to day one, why did i vote you? read carefully:
for the same reason as Heffie, which is that u came in, voted a player and dissapeared. Its not fair. Stay in the game.
Have i covered all grounds? its as simple as this, no gimmicks, no tricks.

[Diplomat]

what is it that I have to defend myself against?
I think that he means that hes continuing his argue from last day, as if it was the same day.
So what is that, Doro, in your own words? I realize that's what radwulf meant, but no one seems to be behind him on his effort. So I don't see what I should be defending myself against.

[radwulf]

This is what you should be defending yourself for:
Diplomat knows very well I always react hard to anything that to me appears to be unjustified accusation. He's played a lot of games to know that much about my particular style. Despite that, he claims his "trap" got me reacting too hard. Why? Why utter clichee nonsense such as "bad guys always accuse their accusers" when I accused my accuser with logic and facts, and when my reaction was not any different than my typical reaction in such a situation?
If you continue to refuse to defend against that, that's fine with me and my vote. But I want to make it very clear that I'm voting you for accusations you have not convincingly (or at all, for some) defended against.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I have specific information which places Diplo in the "not guilty" column of the players. Radwulf, you will need major amounts of persuasion in order to convince me, and hopefully any other players here, to vote for Diplo. I suggest you focus your effort into lynching a real mafia player.

[violinmaestro001]

Beoneknight, are you waiting for a 3rd vote? where is your role claim? i dont think you should play tag right about now, its not the time, u know the rules, 2 votes, role claim, 3 votes lynch, u still have a chance if you hurry and come clean...

[beoneknight]

i'm currently being voted by violinmaestro-aka. mafiascum. I'm going to make it clear why i believe that he is mafia in this game.


first, for the benefit of doro5 and others who have FOSed me. Here's my role claim. I'm the detective from the 'normal' mafia game. i'm on board of the ship in order to 'document this expedition'. Since my job is to record everything, i have an ability to follow one person at night, and i see who visited them. So if i follow someone who was killed that night, i'm going to find out who was the killer.

My results so far were very unimpressive:
night 1) i followed radwulf, and he was not visited by anyone
night 2) i followed slyryguy and he was not visited by anyone

ok, now that we're done with this, i'm going to show why violinmaestro is mafia. this time around, with 3 days left till the deadline, he's asking me for a vote claim. where was that with less then a day to go till the deadline ?!

Violinmaestro, the deadline time is posted in the topic. it's impossible to miss. please dont tell us that u didnt know when the deadline was or is.

Your vote against me last night was meant to accomplish one thing and one thing only: it is to lynch me without my getting a chance to respond.

confirm vote violinmaestro

[beoneknight]

I almost forgot:

no maestro, i'm not waiting for the third vote. my days are horribly filled and the only time i have to actually sit down and read the posts that were made or post is late at night. for those of you who live in chicago, you can see that my posts come late at night.
[sarcasm] I'm guessing that you 'missed' my posting that i will post again in 24 hrs or so from my last post tooo [sarcasm] so read post 82.

[doro5]

first, for the benefit of doro5 and others who have FOSed me. Here's my role claim. I'm the detective from the 'normal' mafia game. i'm on board of the ship in order to 'document this expedition'. Since my job is to record everything, i have an ability to follow one person at night, and i see who visited them. So if i follow someone who was killed that night, i'm going to find out who was the killer.
[...]
Your vote against me last night was meant to accomplish one thing and one thing only: it is to lynch me without my getting a chance to respond.

confirm vote violinmaestro
1. fine, your role claim is acceptable, unvote beoneknight, but your still a suspect in my eyes.
2. VM voted against you in the same day that this day started.
3. what does it mean to confirm a vote?
[sarcasm] I'm guessing that you 'missed' my posting that i will post again in 24 hrs or so from my last post tooo [sarcasm] so read post 82.
he has a point, you know.

[doro5]

and i almost forgot: rawulf, it is quite odd that you still are meddling in your fight with diplomat, and not regarding to the more "current" issues (beoneknight and VM).

[Diplomat]

OK, first of all, I'm relieved that I got cleared by SlyRy, although I wish he had info on radwulf rather than me because I wasn't really under suspicion by many people in the first place.

As for Beone's role claim, it sounds credible. But contrary to his promise, his reasoning doesn't make it clear that VM is guilty. I myself don't usually take note of the deadline until well into the day. But then again, what do people think about my post 64 where I retracted my vote? Should it have indicated to VM that the day was about to end or not?

[violinmaestro001]

A couple of things Beoneknight.
i'm currently being voted by violinmaestro-aka. mafiascum. I'm going to make it clear why i believe that he is mafia in this game.
No, wrong you are being voted by Violinmaestro. Point. Where do you come up with this AKA mafiascum? you just mentioned that you are a detective, and have nothing happened so far, had nothing on me, because you havent investigated me. Let me ask you this, if you are so sure that your reasoning is correct, about me beeing "aka Mafiascum" as you put it, then why did you not investigate me, knowing 100% that i have voted you as you mention here and i quote:
i'm going to show why violinmaestro is mafia. this time around, with 3 days left till the deadline, he's asking me for a vote claim. where was that with less then a day to go till the deadline ?!
Why did you not investigate me last night? why choose slyryguy over me, when he had nothing against you? Remember it was me and Heffie who voted you, not Srlyryguy.

im going to do this for you one last time. RECAP

unvote starman. vote violinmaestro second vote on me places me in risk of some mafia adding one last vote at the end of the day what are you trying to accomplish by it? do you want a role claim? or are you activly tryin to lynch me???? neither one makes sense. explain yourself.

yet you choose not to investigate me, during the night. Your are supposedly running a tight ship (as far as keeping tabs on people, you are assuming that i am AKA mafiascum) where is your investigation.

going on
You on the ohter hand snuck in a vote right before the end of the deadline, u did the classic mafia bandwagoning, with the hope that someone else would add another vote before my chance of resonding. (3 votes was enough to lynch)

again, why did you not investigate me? it simply doesnt make sense. right now i am your biggest enemy, and from all of your posts it shows. So again, why did you not investigate me last night?
you still have a change of getting 3 votes, with 3 days left, i am not the judge, i vote my vote, end of story. you had the chance yesterday as well if you would have "snuck in your clearing post before the deadline. I guess i was more lucky then you, as far as my freetime goes.
If you read the forum, of this particular game, under replacements needed, you may see i was the last one to post, mentioning that i was going to be out of town, the whole weekend, and i may not have internet, though i found a way to post even away from home, call it coincidence, timing, whatever you want, it is the truth. So do not bring in bogus, that you are busy and stuff as such, because we all are. you either play the game and take risks, or you shouldnt be playing. Thats my opinion, take it to the bank, do whatever you must, but private life i think doesnt belong in here. Lets play the game.

To clarify again, why did i vote you and, quote myself
for the same reason as Heffie, which is that u came in, voted a player and dissapeared. Its not fair. Stay in the game.
Does someone need to be mafia in order to post this way? there is even an explanation and warning for the reasoning behind the vote. It is as clear as daylight.

going on in closing...

Your vote against me last night was meant to accomplish one thing and one thing only: it is to lynch me without my getting a chance to respond.

well if you look at it this way, i guess my plan didnt work out because you are alive and kicking. So, my question stands still. after all this aftermath and theoretical breakdown of the events, why have you not investigated me last night?

your roleclaim if believable, but your choice of logic behind your actions are not believable at all.
you make me "aka mafiascum" based small little things that really dont make or brake a vote such as the deadline, and that i snuck in a vote.
You should have then, based on these accusations invetigated me last night.
My vote stays for the above reasons without a change.

[Diplomat]

Maestro, you mentioned like 19 times that Beone didn't choose to investigate you. But there's a simple explanation for that. Beone's claimed role doesn't include investigative abilities. Read it more carefully. He said he can only follow someone and determine if anything happened to them.

I have two questions for Beoneknight:
1. What is your title?
2. Why did you follow Radwulf on the first night knowing that he never gets killed so quickly?

[Sly Ry Guy]

Doro, a confirm vote just reminds people that they are voting for someone. It doesn't give the person another vote or anything, just refreshes everyone's memory that so-and-so is being voted for.

[violinmaestro001]

good point, well taken, thank you Diplomat. I have misread the information.

[HEffie]

I think this thing is getting out of hand too now with Beoneknight and Violinmaestro considering Beoneknight's role claim too. I think we should leave it alone for now and see what kind of information he comes up with tonight so that we can pick on someone for something a little more conclusive than play on words and such. I have to admit, at this point, no one looks lynchable from any of the perspectives given and I'm honestly stumped which is why I feel like results by investigators are the only indicators at this point.
Not to start something like with Beoneknight yesterday, but we've lost StarmanDeluxe somewhere again.

[Diplomat]

I think this thing is getting out of hand too now with Beoneknight and Violinmaestro considering Beoneknight's role claim too. I think we should leave it alone for now and see what kind of information he comes up with tonight so that we can pick on someone for something a little more conclusive than play on words and such. I have to admit, at this point, no one looks lynchable from any of the perspectives given and I'm honestly stumped which is why I feel like results by investigators are the only indicators at this point. Heffie, you just reinforced what's been bugging me about your similar post yesterday all along. We're in the middle of an important debate/argument that might lead to us discover some useful evidence and maybe even identify a traitor. But just as things are getting interesting, you suddenly pop up, just as you did yesterday, and declare the whole thing pointless or irrelevant. Then you try to shift attention away from the ongoing discussion onto something completely different. Yesterday, you shifted focus away from the discussion between radwulf and me and onto Beoneknight's inactivity. And now today, you did almost the same thing. Just as we were about to sort out the Violinmaestro vs. Beoneknight thing, you came in and dismissed the whole discussion as unimportant. What bothers me is not whether you take the right or wrong side in a debate, but that you don't want to engage in one at all. You seem to neglect that even the most benign discussion might yield some nuggets that would become relevant later on. For example, someone might slip up or blurt out something that would cause a contradiction in the future. It's all valid evidence.

You might have already guessed where I'm going with this. It is my theory that opting not to engage in a debate is a tactic of the mafia. I think yesterday you shifted attention away from the main discussion to protect radwulf. You said that neither of us should declare roles because you didn't want radwulf to have to claim a role so soon. And today, you seem to be doing the same thing with regard to the discussion between Maestro and Beone, just as one of them is in trouble. Who are you trying to protect, Maestro or Beone? My guess is Maestro because you already voted for Beone yesterday. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but are the bad guys Radwulf, Heffie, and Violinmaestro? If that's true, then it would support the theory that there was an attempted bandwagon against Beoneknight yesterday by the traitors. But then again, I might be completely off.

[Diplomat]

It is my theory that opting not to engage in a debate is a tactic of the mafia. I should elaborate that it's not just opting out of the debate, but sidestepping it completely and trying to distract us from it that's the tactic.

[HEffie]

Sorry to disappoint you Diplomat but my ultimate goal wasn't to sidestep any of your arguments in which I haven't seen any slip ups so far, but only people reading too much into things so far which is why I haven't had a reason to take sides.
I'm not disregarding posts and ignoring them altogether or taking sides like a lot of the other uninvolved players who seem to mostly just bandwagon on arguments to get them through the day, but I'm actually seeing that there isn't any validity to any of them right now and the only person that has spiked any interest is Violinmaestro with his wild accusations and Beoneknight's response as to investgating radwulf which I'm still waiting for.
I'd rather be objective and make informed decisions than just go along with everyone and I'm sure at this point in the game, not talking is the surest way of staying alive if you're mafia as you guys are attacting all attention to your own debates. Hence, the reason for picking on ppl, because the ppl not talking in small games are usually hiding something. IN the case of beoneknight it's his supposed investigative abilities and as far as Starman who's usually active, it may mean something-so excuse me for trying to put in my bit in the game other than your debate with radwulf from yesterday.

[radwulf]

SlyRyGuy: Did you have the info regarding Diplomat in day 1, or you got it after the second night? If you're not mafia and not lying, you've already given the mafia a valuable piece of information. Consider giving the town as much information about Diplomat and/or your abilities as you legally can. There's a possibility this might help us a lot.

Diplomat: surely you realize a 3-mafia in a 9-players game set-up can lead to a Mafia victory after just ONE incorrect lynch; so the number of mafiosi in this game is very probably less than 3. I do agree that Heffie's pacifist behavior is a bit suspicious--but I'm more inclined to blame it on fear of ordered mass role-claims than diversionist tactics.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I'm changing my FOS to a vote for Starman. He said he would

be much more active starting, say, Tuesday.

And it is now Wednesday. Just as Violin has stated, It's not fair, stay in the game.

[StarmanDeluxe]

I failed to add into my calculations that Tuesday was Valentine's Day =P

I'm here. Will be active from here on out. I promise :)

Anyway, I find Sly Ry Guy's haste to vote me unsettling but not a true red flag. Most suspicious of violinmaestro and am waiting anxiously for the results of beoneknight's investigations.

[Sly Ry Guy]

To Starman: my vote for you is simply out of a desire for a game with no inactive players. now that you're here, I can unvote starman, and move onto more important matters, such as discovering who is mafia-scum.

As for Radwulf: Your interest in my role scares me. I have an investigative one, I investigated Doro on Night 1 (innocent), and Diplomat on Night 2, but more than that I must decline to tell you. Why do you need to know more information about Diplomat besides that I have discovered his innocence? You desire information that would help the mafia even more than just knowing that I am investigative. FOS: Radwulf, for a desire for more information that is either helpful or necessary.

[beoneknight]

Beoneknight's response as to investgating radwulf which I'm still waiting for.


my reasoning for investigating radwulf was simple: in my opinion(and i believe ppl will second this) he's one of the better players. He is almost always investigated/attacked. So if he were to get investigated then i would know that he was visited and didnt die, so then i would have a name of a confirmed innoscent. If he did die, then i'd know who killed him.

What is your title?

my official title is photo jounalist. the rest was explained in my previous post.

[doro5]

Now there are a lot of things to say, so let me begin:
1. Diplomat, you brought up an important point, but I do think that Heffies argument had a point, but well keep an eye out.
2. Radwulf has a point, there are probably only 2 mafia.
3. starman, you better keep your promise.
4. BOK, now that you game your title, im sure about your innocence
5. I won’t be surprised if BOK or slyry will be killed by the mafia tonight.

[Diplomat]

Man, I can't believe you guys are not seeing what's going on here. Let me demonstrate.
Violinmaestro:
... you my friend, you knew exactly when the day was over and were worried for some reason about your second vote. so, to stop this , yes i do want a role claim from you. Beoneknight, are you waiting for a 3rd vote? where is your role claim?
Radwulf:
Beoneknight, it might be a good idea for you to claim a role at this point, as there is some consensus for the accusations brought against you. and finally: SlyRyGuy: ... Consider giving the town as much information about Diplomat and/or your abilities as you legally can. There's a possibility this might help us a lot. Why do both of them want role claims and only role claims as opposed to any other defense? To gather as much information about the subbies as possible so that their own role claims will not overlap or contradict the actual roles. There are more ways than one to defend oneself, and if you're accusing someone you should hear them out first to avoid exposing innocents with important abilities. And why in the world is radwulf asking SlyRy for more information about his abilities and his knowledge of me when no one else has a problem with it and the best thing to do for an investigator is not to appear more visible than necessary? SlyRy doesn't even the required votes on him to allow him to divulge what he knows.

Heffie, you're repeating the same pattern. First you say, "...this thing is getting out of hand too now with Beoneknight and Violinmaestro considering Beoneknight's role claim too." And now after I've confronted you, you say, "I'm actually seeing that there isn't any validity to any of them right now and the only person that has spiked any interest is Violinmaestro with his wild accusations and Beoneknight's response as to investgating radwulf which I'm still waiting for." Well, what do you think this thing between Beoneknight and Violinmaestro is about? I don't see how you could have a dismissive attitude toward the Beoneknight/Violinmaestro discussion and at the same time, have some suspicion toward Maestro.

STRONG FOS -> HEffie

[doro5]

im pretty sure that at least one of diplomats accusations are correct, so ill vote the one who was on my suspect list anyway:
vote Radwulf
i think that HEffie and VM need more investigating before we proceed.

[radwulf]

Diplomat: the accusations against Beoneknight were quite serious, and of the type (specific behavior) that are hard to be explained away without leaving serious question marks. And I did not demand a role from Beoneknight, I just told him that IMO he got into the situation were he should give the best possible defense.

And regarding the Sly Ry Guy accusation, your reasoning is worse than a beginner's. If I'm Mafia, as soon as the words "information", "know for sure", "results" come out of a beginner's mouth, I know enough to put that guy on the soon-to-be-killed list and keep my mouth shut. What more do I need to know if I'm Mafia? I can't believe you'd use such an absurd line of reasoning.

Once a beginner (or a player who should know better) drops the ball and mentions having info, the best thing for the town is for that player to come out with as much detail as possible (within legal limits). The Mafia knows who the innocent are, knows he's probably speaking the truth, and does not need any additional information to realize he's someone worth killing soon. Also, my request to Sly Ry Guy was for more information (not a role claim) and specifically included a warning to remain within the limits of legality.

So Sly Ry Guy, relax and think what could I have done with additional information from you if I was Mafia once you dropped your not-so-subtle hint on Diplomat.

Doro5, if you're not Mafia, don't let people with extremely faulty logic lead you astray. Do your own thinking, and give the accused (me) a chance to expose the faulty, sometimes absurd logic of the accuser (Diplomat).

And Diplomat, stop being so sloppy!

[Diplomat]

OK, that makes sense what you said about the Mafia's motivations (or lack of them) when it comes to asking for role details. But what I was trying to illustrate is that you and VM were the only people that have asked specifically for role claims or details. I propose that the reason for that is to gather "intelligence" to build up credibility for your own role claims so they are consistent with the style of the actual roles. You'd also want to avoid conflict with known information. That's why you guys want as much information out in the open as possible. If you later have to give a fake list of targets, you'd want to know as much as possible to avoid surprises.

[violinmaestro001]

Since this is going nowhere, at the moment, i have made a big mistake missreading, thus kinda making a fool out of myself i will have to withdraw my vote, because it doesnt stand on any grounds.
Unvote Beoneknight.
Diplomat, you maybe going somewhere with Heffie, i dont know, but when your thinking about the trio, radwulf slyryguy and myself as maffia, you are wrong, at lease as far as my involvment. Let me make this a bit simpler. I am leaving this game monday. I want to win,so i dont have time to just sit and wait with nothing happening. I will tell you this, of course as you would have thought i would write tis. I am on the good side. If you dont believe me, just vote me, either way, i want to see some action, but like a said i failed at Beoneknight's evaluation with missrearing his post.UPS.
What's funny is also that as soon as Starman got a vote, he was back in the game. I had second thaughts about voting him since monday... now youre back so i dont have an excuse to vote you. Heffie what do you have to say? you have been approached by diplomat quite well.

[violinmaestro001]

Still bothers me a bit. Beoneknight

I'm the detective from the 'normal' mafia game. i'm on board of the ship in order to 'document this expedition'. Since my job is to record everything,

my official title is photo jounalist. the rest was explained in my previous post.

Ok so there is a bit of miscrepency between his first and second role name.
Detective or journalist.
I went off the wrong branck and "wildly accused him" simply for reading detectice and then not focusing on the rest.
But photo journalist just makes sense, since detective would be able to do more than just sit and watch to see if maybee something would happen, in other words a detective can me the action happen.
By the way Heffie, you want to bring piece, but you never took your vote off of Beoneknight. Any specific reason other then forgeting? Or you see something i dont see

[radwulf]

Diplomat, my own actions were not those of a person out to get roles no matter what. I made a suggestion to Beoneknight, not a vote-and-demand. The details Sly Ry Guy could give about his info were not of the type he could LEGALLY give AND significantly help a future fake role claim from me.

On the other hand, if I was Mafia I would have reasons to be afraid to get the bandwagon of mass role declarations rolling. Once the town gets in "let's get everybody to declare one-by-one" mode, there's no way to evade a role declaration. As one of the people in the spotlight this game my turn to declare would have come very soon. That's why as Mafia I would have had more reasons to try to prevent role declarations rather than cause them. I wouldn't have been able to get more than one or two declarations before my turn would have come.

And this is precisely the reason why I am suspecting Heffie. Check out some of her reflections on roles and role claiming:

that perhaps there are some of the same roles, but I doubt the mod would do that as I know how keen he is on giving mafia a chance at creating roles.

P.S. I don't think radwulf or Diplomat should be revealing roles at this point in the game for the reasons I've stated above, and yes, even though it's a small game..I'd be tempted to opt for such actions taking place tomorrow for example when perhaps people gain more knowledge about things...like the game and not vote people off or role claim because of certain "intonations" detected in phrases that people may have made just to mean that, what they said.
Very small, themed-game... try to figure who's got most reasons to worry about mass role claims? Who would prefer to convince the town, influence the town they don't need to claim yet? Who would postpone claims as much as possible? People who have a name and ability given by the mod, and no chances of overlapping/contradicting other people? Or people who need to invent a name, description, information and ability that fits the story AND the moderator style AND make sure it doesn't contradict what anyone else might know?

[doro5]

Do your own thinking
Well, the thing was that diplomat gave a very good point. But your right, I should’ve waited for your response.
On the other hand, if I was Mafia I would have reasons to be afraid to get the bandwagon of mass role declarations rolling. Once the town gets in "let's get everybody to declare one-by-one" mode, there's no way to evade a role declaration. As one of the people in the spotlight this game my turn to declare would have come very soon. That's why as Mafia I would have had more reasons to try to prevent role declarations rather than cause them. I wouldn't have been able to get more than one or two declarations before my turn would have come.
what you’re saying is true, but there was (I think) no attempt to get to "let's get everybody to declare one-by-one" mode, all we did was to try to make people that have already given out parts of their role (SlyRyGuy), or their entire role (BOK), to give us all the information about what they found out, to be able to get the most before they will be (probably) killed. Not that im saying it was a good thing to do.
Where is starman? Didn’t he promise to be more active?

[doro5]

almost forgot, unvote radwulf

[HEffie]

YOu've got some nerve Diplomat. Considering the fact that I'm trying to think things through before throwing votes on people and waiting to see what becomes of arguments rather than getting right in there to start pointing fingers kind of like what you're doing right now. First it's radwulf, then Violinmaestro, then maybe Beoneknight, then Sly Ry Guy comes into the picture and now me because I'm not throwing votes like you when it only takes 3 to lynch. Well excuse me for not jumping on half the town in my desperation to attract attention away from myself and onto every single person and every line they say.
Have you got any substantial evidence against anyone? No, you'd think you'd admit it.Have you got suspicions on anyone? Yeah, about 5 players so far. Any good reasons for lynching someone at this point? Gee, maybe you can answer that for me and ease my mind so I can make the right decision since it must be so obvious when reading inbetween the lines of every single post [/sarcasm]
I can understand you thinking it's peculiar of me to not take sides and fight for someone or against someone to the death cause I don't think that way, but now you're trying to somehow find mafioso type reasoning behind it and it's a little bit too much as it seems you're trying to find reasons to lynch people.
Now for Beoneknight's role. NOt really descriptive there with the "I'm a detective bit" I found "innocent" type deal. Hardly seems like the type of role description needed for this game. There is no other information given? Such as a background story or more of a description to it...?

[violinmaestro001]

Heffie
Now for Beoneknight's role. NOt really descriptive there with the "I'm a detective bit" I found "innocent" type deal. Hardly seems like the type of role description needed for this game. There is no other information given? Such as a background story or more of a description to it...?
like i said, i found it interesting why he gave 2 different names for his role descripion, but i dont think anyone is interested in this story, they are still figuring out the radwulf VS Diplomat thing, kinda annoying if you ask me, because its going in circles, with no end to it (so far). So i took my vote off, but im still not sure i did the right thing. No sarcasm here.nobody has anything to say? Its rather sad, ...

[doro5]

now youre just being stuipd about BOKs role.
he has the normal powers of a detective, but his official name is photo jounalist.

[beoneknight]

found it interesting why he gave 2 different names

NO i didnt!

I'm the detective from the 'normal' mafia game.

in a normal, non-themed mafia game, my role corresponds to that of the detective. When diplomat asked me for my official title, i gave it, which can be seen in my previous post. These statements are in no way contradictory. In non-themed mafia, the way i play it anyway, a cop gets guilty/not guilty results. Detective finds out who visited a certain person at night.

Also, heff, i do not get guilty/not guilty results. I just find out who visited the person. I can't really copy and paste the email from mod in here. the best summary which i gave is: i follow one person at night, and find out who visited them.

My vote stays where it was.

[beoneknight]

lol, thanx doro, you posted while i was typing up my post.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I could have sworn that a certain StarmanDeluxe said he would be participating more... First, he said Tuesday, then he said Wednesday and that he would never again dissappear, and well, he disappeared. What is this? Each time he returned was after a vote or FOS to him, only to never post until someone called him on it again. Slightly suspicious? I think so. I may be persistant in my attempt to get some attention on Starman, but that still doesn't change the fact that he has contributed absolutely nothing to our discussions, and only popped in to say, "I'm here, honest," repeatedly.

[violinmaestro001]

now youre just being stuipd about BOKs role.
he has the normal powers of a detective, but his official name is photo jounalist.

by the way, thank you for explaining how the two roles work as one. your on my A list.u know what? Call me old fashioned, or stupid as you put it, i just dont feel right about Beokenight.I told you this earlier, and after reading your post Doro5 and Beoneknight's post let me say your post made me upset. do whatever you may, its your time to post, your choice.

you did notice Beoneknigt only used one of his own posts regarding his name, which is
I'm the detective from the 'normal' mafia game.
here is what i dont like
Detective and "normal" mafia game.elighten me, what other kind of detective is there?(sarcasm)

oh, dont forget your other role name.

my official title is photo jounalist. the rest was explained in my previous post.

my question still stands. Why did you use 2 different names?
Im thinking Detective, carries more weight, compared to Photo journalist, therefore easier to believe.
anyways, as stupid as i may be called, im bringing my vote on you back.
Beoneknight
My vote stays where it was.
well , that just made your day and mine.
Vote Beoneknight.
Doro5? a little advice...
If you ever call someone stupid, make sure you do it in public, it works real good. :D

[HEffie]

So the issue with "normal detective" equivalency of a "normal" mafia game is the following:
1. What's a "photo journalist" doing aboard a supposedly medical submarine inside the president's body? What would they need that for?
2. It seems to me that from the roles given so far in this game and in the parallel Romanian game, the roles are given type CIA agent/detective and not photo journalist type names for roles because like I've said earlier, Daemon likes to go for roles that describe more of what they do rather than a fantasy type role name such as "the cook" or "the butler" making it difficult for mafia to find role names to use.
I'm strongly FOSing this as it's giving off some major negative vibage.

[doro5]

Doro5? a little advice...
If you ever call someone stupid, make sure you do it in public, it works real good.
sorry if I insulted you, i meant that tha whole disscution on BOKs role was silly.
by the way, thank you for explaining how the two roles work as one. your on my A list
what does that mean?

[Diplomat]

Violinmaestro, I don't understand what you're still confused about. In fact, I don't think you should be confused at all. You seem to be trying to pin these false contradiction charges on Beoneknight just like radwulf was trying to pin one on me yesterday. Beoneknight explained it pretty well. Earlier you were also trying to make him look guilty by pointing to the false evidence that he didn't investigate you. That may have been a genuine mistake, but your motivations were clear: to paint him as a bad guy whatever it takes. Are you looking for the traitors or for an excuse to vote for Beone?

To be fair, Heffie brought up a valid point about the photo journalist title. This is supposed to be a top secret mission, so why would they invite a journalist? If there was a role with Beone's abilities, wouldn't it be called something like Mission Auditor? Maybe the journalist was told to keep this as secret for now and to report on it after the crisis had passed. Beoneknight, any thoughts?

But still, Maestro was acting way more suspiciously in my book. So I will vote for him until he provides some credible defense to exonerate himself. We have to agree on one person to vote anyway.
unvote: radwulf
vote: violinmaestro

[doro5]

Maybe the journalist was told to keep this as secret for now and to report on it after the crisis had passed. Beoneknight, any thoughts?
Good point.
We have to agree on one person to vote anyway.
That’s not a reason to vote someone. Rather be safe then sorry.
You did give another explanation, but are you sure it’s a good idea to put someone at risk? This is the second vote against VM.
But, if VM is innocent, I don’t fear a bandwagon, because if that happens, we’ll be able to easily spot the bandwagoner.

[violinmaestro001]

ok, so its my time to reveal my role. I am The Surgeon, i am to heal the president.the surgery will be a success, as long as i am alive to see that day, otherwise, the president dies. there you have it..
now for the strategic, "slick vote on last minute , mafioso type movement" i will
Unvote Beoneknight
Vote Starmandeluxe
Reason. you all know the reason. hes never here, and when he is, he just says im back and il stay here now. Never happened.

[violinmaestro001]

Starmandeluxe, here are all your posts in this game. Most inactive, no relevance to this game what so ever. Might as well go, you arent contributing . 2 posts in 2 days. Pothetic.
Sorry about inactivity. Some business has just popped up... I'll be much more active starting, say, Tuesday.

I'm here. Will be active from here on out. I promise

[HEffie]

Diplomat, I was reaaaaally hoping no one would say anything and just let beoneknight tell us why it's like that and not make up reasons for him...that now takes out the point of my question as he no longer has to say anything at ALL in his defense.

As for Violinmaestro...what kind of role is that? If one person dies than the whole "good side" of this game is lost? What if you were killed by the mafia during the first night? Game over?

[HEffie]

And why are you now off beoneknight and onto Starman all of a sudden?

I think it'd be a good idea to take a vote off him till the man responds and not get bandwagonned.

[Diplomat]

Oops, didn't mean to answer for BOK. I'll let you grill him from now on, Hef. :)

Uh, I'll think I'll leave my vote as it is, just to see what happens when we kill the surgeon. ;)

[violinmaestro001]

what happens when you kill me? I do not know, i have told you what i am and what i do.what happens if i die? I really cant say because i do not have that information. Maybee there is a backup plan like in other mafia games where they have a doc on reserve when one dies. but I do not know this, do not quote me on this. like i said, i do not know.
Heffie?
And why are you now off beoneknight and onto Starman all of a sudden?
did you read my post? its explained why. you could be a bit more careful when reading.

[beoneknight]

violin maestro, so what you mean to tell us is that your role is sooo incredibly important, that if you're killed or lynched at any point the whole mission is automatically lost for town?! somehow i find it highly doubtfull.

I can easily prove my innoscence. I'm announicng this right now. I will follow heffie this night. If you're to visit her, i will know it, and am going to announce it. I'm flexible on my choice of heffie, but i think she's the best choice right now. If an investistigator visits her and finds her innoscent, we'll automatically have 3 confirmed innoscents!
I would have been confirmed as innoscent. I will know that investigators name. And finally, we'll have an investigative result on heffie. Which will make it that much easier on us. This way my role is going to be proven, and i believe town will have a much easier time winning!

[radwulf]

Beoneknight, your role can serve as a doctor-type: by visiting (optionally announcing beforehand) a known/proven investigator. I would recommend visiting Sly Ry Guy instead.

As for ViolinMaestro, I have good reasons to find his role claim believable. Even if you have doubts about him, make sure he is not lynched today.

[violinmaestro001]

beoneknight
violin maestro, so what you mean to tell us is that your role is sooo incredibly important, that if you're killed or lynched at any point the whole mission is automatically lost for town?! somehow i find it highly doubtfull.

no, i am telling you what my role is, and what it does. End of story. the rest is just speculation on my part as well as anybody's part, since i do not have information on what happens if i die. Perhaps i should not die, since there is no mention of it in my role description, but on the other hand, one way to find out is to have me killed. I mean i layed my cards on the table, will find out what happens.

[Diplomat]

Well, I will probably not have a chance to post before the deadline, and I'm going to take the risk with my vote. But I just want to tell people to watch out for a possible last-minute "coup" by the Mafia to produce a voting tie if we don't collect enough votes for one person. It's happened before and I hate it when it happens. So the crew ought to step up to the plate. Doro5? Starman? SlyRyGuy?

[violinmaestro001]

Diplomat, i find this interesting comming from you
Uh, I'll think I'll leave my vote as it is, just to see what happens when we kill the surgeon.
I'm going to take the risk with my vote
But I just want to tell people to watch out for a possible last-minute "coup" by the Mafia to produce a voting tie if we don't collect enough votes for one person. It's happened before and I hate it when it happens. So the crew ought to step up to the plate. Doro5? Starman? SlyRyGuy?
Am i missing something here? where are the other people involved in this? Starman as part of the crew? forgive me for asking, who's crew and what kind of crew because its an incomplete crew so far without the other players.? he's never around and even if he is, so far his not worth a penny, he's a liar so far(starman, that is).

[beoneknight]

I'm not going to be online until tomorrow. So, I'm going to visit HEFFIE tonight. I'll report on my findings tomorrow, i hope i make it through.

[radwulf]

Beoneknight, if you're really going to do that please reconsider that you will be visiting one of the most suspicious players at this moment when you should do the exact opposite: visit one of the important exposed townie roles.

Unofficial VOTE COUNT
violinmaestro 2 - (beoneknight, diplomat)
diplomat 1 - (radwulf)
starmandeluxe 1 - (violinmaestro)


I repeat: I have very good reasons to believe Violinmaestro is innocent.

[violinmaestro001]

thanks for being on my side Radwulf. You know, i am dying to know why Starman is inactive and no one is worried or thinks that this is unacceptable.I guess you know that i rather have an inactive, non-help player lynched, than just have an extra player that doesnt bring anything to the table. I am willing to take this risk, becuase i dont see it as a loss.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Violin, I have been commenting on Starman's lack of participation for two days now. I have voted and FOSed him, and now I think I will once again vote starman. Still not enough to lynch him, but it gives us another option instead of Violin, who seems to have an important role to the sub. I agree with Violin, better to kill off an inactive player than one that is bringing information to the table and providing good points to work from.

[violinmaestro001]

it is probably just a coincidence, but look
Beoneknight
I'm not going to be online until tomorrow. So, I'm going to visit HEFFIE tonight. I'll report on my findings tomorrow, i hope i make it through.
diplomat
Well, I will probably not have a chance to post before the deadline, and I'm going to take the risk with my vote.

tomorrow. as in after the night is over in the game.
if i wouldt know any better, id say they are on the same team, knowing that they are the two that voted me...

[HEffie]

Why is it so important to you, Diplomat, to vote someone off today one way or another? Secondly, why do you choose that to be someone who's made that kind of a role claim? radwulf seems to have some sort of information or hunch or something or other to the effect that we should leave him alone. Even taking that out of the equation, why would you be willing to vote off someone who's just made this role claim? I'm leaning towards believing Violin at least for now, because I would think there are more important ppl to be taken into consideration, such as you and why you're purposely trying to get him lynched today under the excuse of not having him accidentally lynched on account of the rest of the town voting someone else and creating a tie which would then unfortunately(?) not kill anyone.
The only person highly suspicious and deserving votes as of right now is you, actually, taking into consideration your last few posts and this need to lynch someone with a role description such as Violin's which is at least more credible than beoneknight's.
Guess I've finally taken a stand eh? vote: Diplomat

P.S. radwulf, what makes me one of the "most suspicious" players right now?

the : D turned into a smiley face...instead of a mean looking bold vote

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Though, supposedly, the men of action were inside the sub as opposed to the observers outside, it looks like the crew lacked resolve and was far less united than expected. A clear, co-ordinated action had yet to be seen on their part.

Inside the lab, things are a whole lot more volatile. TheDark was suddenly found guilty and was subjected to a summary execution. It was only after the transceiver he had on him started beeping and they checked his belongings that they realised he was an FBI Agent. Also Coco finally kicked the bucket, the poison that he was injected with put and end to his Accredited Journalist career.

Nobody dies.

NIGHT 03 - ends Feb 20th 10:00 hrs
Please send your targets to mafia61(@)salajan<.>ro.
Unsent targets will be lost.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Nothing of interest seems to have happened on the sub during last night, which wasn't entirely restless, though.

Silvextru, The President Assistant, was found shot in her head in front of her mirror, behind which she kept her secret orders for blackmailing and even killing the President.

Nobody dies.

It's now Day 03. There are 8 players remaining.
5 votes for instant lynch. 3 votes for deadline lynch. 2 votes for role claims.

[beoneknight]

here's what i got tonight: noone came to see heffie!

[Diplomat]

It's lame what happened yesterday evening. I thought it was obvious that Violinmaestro was lying. So where was everyone? This is another one of those times where we've all but figured out who the evil ones are but good guys just don't turn up to vote them off. So the bad guys end up winning by stalling for time and killing off the others one by one at night. On the bright side, no one died during the night. I didn't think I was gonna make it.

Heffie, what was that vote for me all about? You knew I didn't have the opportunity to defend myself.

Beoneknight, who besides Maestro do you think is a traitor? What was the point of visiting Heffie?

[doro5]

About BOKs role: I don’t really know Romanian, but I’m pretty sure that "Jurnalist" is like "Journalist", and coco was that.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Doro, It was a type-o. Daemon's post was all in English.

[Diplomat]

Sly Ry, have you got any new info from last night?

[HEffie]

Diplomat the vote still stands vote :Diplomat because I was decided upon a role claim from you because you're trying to bandwagon someone who gave a pretty huge role claim yesterday. VM sounds pretty credible to me in his role claim even if he's not sure how his role works. Daemon does that sometimes and I think he purposely leaves room for confusion and doubt so as to make things "more interesting" perhaps. It just bothers me that you would wanna get rid of him in the snap of a finger mostly because you wanted SOMEONE to get lynched and he seemed like the most controversial person at the time that most people wouldn't have minded voting off. Now that no one's died during the night you come out saying "hooray"?!?! how is that any diff? I don't think Vm is neccessarily guilty at this point, but mostly because your attitude is waaay more suspicious to me and I'd like to know what this logic is all about.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I investigated Starman, and he came up innocent, but I still want to know why he isn't active. Heffie, your vote turned into a nice smiley face again.

[Diplomat]

Heffie, first off, FYI, I've been cleared by Sly Ry Guy early yesterday, back in post 92. While that's not 100% proof that I'm innocent, I think it gives me the priviledge of declaring my role after some other people that have been acting way more suspiciously than I have take their turns. In other words, I'll say my role after you and radwulf have claimed yours.

What is it about VM's role that makes it credible? I mean, on the surface it's pretty implausible. If VM is telling the truth, and the surgeon dies, not only is our mission in the sub over, but the one on the outside supposedly ends too. How is it that one guy's role is so pivotal? Maybe VM was truthful but he wasn't telling us the whole story.

BTW, is it a coincidence that only Heffie and Radwulf, the two people that I believe are the traitors, were defending VM yesterday?

[radwulf]

Diplomat, you're getting very sloppy again. :) Notice HOW I defended VM yesterday. Did I say anything about his behavior, actions, accusations against etc? If I were Mafia defending a colleague, would I say: I have unspecified reasons to believe this guy is innocent? Is that the kind of defense I would give to a cornered mafia buddy?

[Diplomat]

No vote for me this time, Radwulf? :) There are a couple of ways of looking at your defense of VM. If VM is guilty, then it may have been a desperate attempt to save him because you thought his death was almost certain after that role claim. But he didn't have to be your colleague for you to defend him. Assuming he was innocent, after it would have been revealed that he was telling the truth, the ones who voted for him would have been seen as irrational bandwagoners. But the ones who defended him would have added credibility to themselves. Maybe not in the eyes of experienced players, but some would have become more reluctant to vote for you later on. So what's that reason you have to believe he's innocent? Let me guess, you're the replacement surgeon?

[violinmaestro001]

diplomat
What is it about VM's role that makes it credible? I mean, on the surface it's pretty implausible
i dont think you take the time to read carefully my posts
What is so credible about my role? i mean c'mon im a surgeon, what is so no credible about it? tell me.
Pretty implausible? did you take the time to read the story? the president needs to have a surgery or he will die, and i am the surgeon. cause and effect... easy
BTW, is it a coincidence that only Heffie and Radwulf, the two people that I believe are the traitors, were defending VM yesterday?
i dont think its a coincidence, due to the fact that you and beoneknight voted against me, so, i could say that that is a coincidence as well. you and beoneknight went up against me. Could that be a coinsidence?
further more
Assuming he was innocent, after it would have been revealed that he was telling the truth, the ones who voted for him would have been seen as irrational bandwagoners.
i think you made a point here diplomat.
it does seem as irrational bandwagoners, seems the truth was spoken when i revealed my vote, yet you decided to go ahead and have me lynched, andi quote:
Uh, I'll think I'll leave my vote as it is, just to see what happens when we kill the surgeon.
that speaks highly agains you my friend.
your basically saying you want me lynced just to see what happens because you dont want to accept my role claim. how did i come to this conclusion? Its all over your posts, but its right here
just to see what happens when we kill the surgeon.
so, i am going to FOS Diplomat

[violinmaestro001]

off topic
if you expect me to post each day, please forvige me, il try to do my best, but im starting my 10 week tour at 4am in the morning, and i do not have a laptop with me, but i will try to do my best as to post depending on our hotel accomodations. thank you for your understanding, good luck to all.
end of topic

[HEffie]

Diplomat, I'm pretty sure you didn't just call radwulf a panicking irrational mafioso. I'm sure if he was, he wouldn't be playing such a straight forward retarted mafia card. Either way, his comment towards VM's innocence or SLy Ry Guy's towards yours aren't 100% accredited, but as for your actions which have been nicely quoted by VM even, aren't quite equal to those of a concerned townie.

[violinmaestro001]

Amen sister. :cool:

[radwulf]

I vote: Diplomat so he can claim a role. Doro5 should be next, IMO, followed by Heffie.

[Diplomat]

How kind of you, radwulf. Thanks. :) Here, let me return the favor. vote: radwulf. BTW, I think you forgot to include your name at the head of that declarations list.

[Diplomat]

... but as for your actions which have been nicely quoted by VM even, aren't quite equal to those of a concerned townie. Wait a sec. If I was a traitor, why would I be so bold and reckless when I was voting for someone I knew was innocent? That would be like suicide. Think about this logically. The reason I joked about wanting to see what happens when we kill the surgeon was because that role claim on its face sounded so unbelievable. Beoneknight had the same view and his role has apparently been confirmed. So why am I the one being picked on? I suppose because I'm a convenient target for the mafia at the moment.

Earlier in the discussion, you made a big deal about not voting for people and not taking sides before substantial evidence emerges against them, such as shown in this quote: Considering the fact that I'm trying to think things through before throwing votes on people and waiting to see what becomes of arguments rather than getting right in there to start pointing fingers kind of like what you're doing right now. Considering the fact that I've been cleared by an investigator, you've apparently abandoned those standards and are now eager to throw your vote on me. You're clearly taking sides now based on reasoning that's at best grasping at straws, much less an investigation result. Who's being hypocritical now? If you want to judge what kind of a concerned townie I am, please consider all of my postings, not just the ones you're refering to. Post 64 from day 1 is one example: I might not get a chance to post before the deadline, and one more vote is required for a deadline lynch. So to prevent a possible last-minute bandwagon by the mafia, I should unvote: radwulf.

[violinmaestro001]

Diplomat, i believe a role claim is awaiting you...please tell us
also back to our discussion

Wait a sec. If I was a traitor, why would I be so bold and reckless when I was voting for someone I knew was innocent? That would be like suicide
dont forget the other possibility. what is you were a traitor, and being bold is what can make you seem innocent as well. you know better Diplomat.
Considering the fact that I've been cleared by an investigator, you've apparently abandoned those standards and are now eager to throw your vote on me.
let us assume that the investigation can be incorrect, or backwords, it has happened in the past, so lets keep all possibilities open for now. I believe, honestly that a role claim could say more, or at least as much for your own benefit of reinforcing what the investigation turned up about you (been on the good side)

The reason I joked about wanting to see what happens when we kill the surgeon was because that role claim on its face sounded so unbelievable. Beoneknight had the same view and his role has apparently been confirmed. So why am I the one being picked on?
very true, about Beoneknight what you are saying. But you are not being picked on, You made that choice yourself, by joking about a serious role claim. You may say now what you want trying to clear the "joke" but it sure didnt seem a joke when you posted it, obviously.
on the other hand, if someone tells you to jump off a skyscraper saying you will be fine when you hit the ground, would you blindly do it, or you would think about it rationally before jumbing to your death?
further more
If you want to judge what kind of a concerned townie I am, please consider all of my postings, not just the ones you're refering to.
lets not change subject (going back to the beginning) lets focus on what we have at hand now, about the curent situation. You are in the spotlight. It is your time to clear yourself, and represent.
one last thing Diplomat, you never responded to any of my accusations that i have made to you specifically with all the quotes included, which also makes me think that you are trying to evade something here.
i am being nice not to vote you just yet, so please come forth.

[beoneknight]

Quick summary of the game so far:

Beoneknight - photojournalist
Diplomat - innoscent by slyryguy
Doro5 - ??? innoscent by slyry - trusted b1k after the photojournalist claim
Heffie - ???
Radwulf - ??? - trusted violinmaestro after surgeon claim.
SlyRyGuy - self proclaimed investigator
StarmanDeluxe - missing, hasnt participated in the game so far, innoscent by slyry
Violinmaestro - claims surgeon

I may have missed this, but radwulf, what information do you have about maestro that tells you that he's innsocent.

I believe that we should be able to figure out exactly what is going on here. I'll be back with more tomorrow. I think i summed this up pretty well, but please feel free to add more stuff!

[HEffie]

Diplomat, I'm pretty sure I've already answered your question as to why I was voting you.
1. I'm not so sure about the type of investigator Sly Ry Guy is right now, there seem to be too many investigative-ish type roles which leads me to believe that the one true investigator may be naive or have something wrong with him...the game is just too small for that.
2. Most importantly, my vote goes out to you because of your actions and motivation which I see as being mafioso, rather than who's "cleared" you.

I don't see why this is so difficult right now, you need to come up with a role claim, end of story and then we can move on rather than waste time discussing why or why not you're being voted till the cows come home.

[radwulf]

I forgot Doro5 was declared innocent by SlyRyGuy. So Heffie should declare before him.
If all role claims so far are townies, we probably have a godfather amongst us.

[doro5]

Speaking of summaries: (the voters, not the voted!)

BOK-day 1-starman, VM. Day 2-VM. Day 3-no-one.
Diplomat-day 1-radwulf, no-one. Day 2-radwul, VM. Day 3-radwulf.
Doro5- day 1-no-one. Day 2-BOK, Radwulf, no-one. Day 3-no-one.
HEffie- day 1-BOK. Day 2-diplomat. Day 3-diplomat.
Radwulf- day 1-sunsun, diplomat. Day 2-diplomat. Day 3- diplomat.
SlyRyGuy- day 1-VM, Radwulf, starman. Day 2- starman, starman. Day 3-no-one.
Starman- day 1- no-one. Day 2-no-one. Day 3-no-one.
Sunsun- day 1-no-one.
VM- day 1-slyryguy, BOK. Day 2-BOK, BOK, starman.
Now, what can we learn?

[doro5]

If all role claims are true, and all of SlyRyGuy’s investigations are correct, then we are left with 2 people: Radwulf & HEffie.
I suggest the investigator-type roles will investigate them.

[doro5]

I suggest the investigator-type roles will investigate them.
Not that I suggest that they are guilty, just so well have info on them

[Diplomat]

dont forget the other possibility. what is you were a traitor, and being bold is what can make you seem innocent as well. you know better Diplomat. OK, but that's really stretching it. What's the much simpler explanation, and thus the much more likely one?
let us assume that the investigation can be incorrect, or backwords, it has happened in the past, so lets keep all possibilities open for now. I believe, honestly that a role claim could say more, I agree. I've already said that it doesn't prove 100% that I'm innocent. But it does entitle me to declare my role as one of the last. I think that's fair. I'll be glad to state my role--just as soon as radwulf, who I'm pretty sure is mafia, claims his. (I'm not even asking for Heffie to go first anymore.)
You may say now what you want trying to clear the "joke" but it sure didnt seem a joke when you posted it, obviously. How could it have been seen as anything BUT a joke? Think about it this way. If I was not joking, I would have to have known that you were telling the truth. And I would have to have really wanted you dead just to see what happens. If I was a traitor, I would have to be really dumb to mean that in a serious way. Come on, that's obvious.
on the other hand, if someone tells you to jump off a skyscraper saying you will be fine when you hit the ground, would you blindly do it, or you would think about it rationally before jumbing to your death? What does this have to do with anything?
one last thing Diplomat, you never responded to any of my accusations that i have made to you specifically with all the quotes included, which also makes me think that you are trying to evade something here.
i am being nice not to vote you just yet, so please come forth. I thought everything else was self-explanatory. What I'm trying to evade is to have to state my role before the bad guys claim theirs.
What is so credible about my role? i mean c'mon im a surgeon, what is so no credible about it? tell me.
Pretty implausible? did you take the time to read the story? the president needs to have a surgery or he will die, and i am the surgeon. cause and effect... easy I don't understand why you don't see the justification behind Beone's and my votes for you yesterday. Do you not see what makes your role so implausible? I mean the part where if you get killed, the whole mission's over? What if you die on night 1, then what, the game's over before it started? You haven't explained that one yet. Are we supposed to take it on faith that something will happen if you die to let the mission continue, or is there something you're not telling us? VM, can you be killed at night? How about lynched during the day? Maybe you got something wrong about yourself. Right now, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. I think you should do the same for me.
i dont think its a coincidence, due to the fact that you and beoneknight voted against me, so, i could say that that is a coincidence as well. you and beoneknight went up against me. Could that be a coinsidence? You're right, it's not a coincidence. Beone and I are probably both on the same team, the team that wants to save the president. We're both experienced players and I don't think either of us have ever encountered a role such as the one you claimed. If you're suspicious of me, then you should be suspicious of Beoneknight. You have to understand that aside from your role claim, your behavior yesterday was suspicious too with regard to Beoneknight.

So in summary, I don't hesitate to clear myself. There's nothing for me make up about my abilities. But I don't want the bad guys to get any ideas from my role, that's why I don't think I should declare first. VM, maybe you'd like to lend radwulf your vote so that he can claim a role. (And then I'll state mine.)

Summary of why radwulf should claim a role:
1. Kept his vote on me all day yesterday even though I was declared innocent.
2. Kept wanting me to defend against some bogus charges that no one was behind him on.
3. First he brushed off accusations against Heffie, but then he suddenly became suspicious of her.
4. Kept distorting my posts in order to make me appear illogical or "sloppy", even though people were more inclined to side with me. A bad guy would be in the best position to judge if I was being sloppy.
5. Defended VM's role claim. Even if VM was telling the truth, the traitors would be among the few people that would know it.
5. Unlike me, hasn't been investigated.
6. Several people were already suspicious of him during days 1 and 2.
7. Other stuff that I'm forgetting.

Confirm vote: radwulf

[radwulf]

1. Chances are very high there's a godfather in this game, and a declaration from someone we really don't know anything about doesn't just wipe out an entire game's worth of very suspicious behavior.

2. You are the one who brought the bogus charges. I defended against them, challenging your accusations with logic. To my challenges you responded saying I'm "distorting" your posts and ignored them, instead of fighting back with logic. To this day you still haven't explained why my reaction to your first accusation was "typical bad guy behavior" instead of "typical radwulf behavior".

3. I never brushed off any accusations against Heffie. This is the kind of lie that got you in trouble with me in the first place.

4. SHOW HOW I distorted your posts. Every time I pointed out the slopiness in your alleged thinking I did so with very accurate logic. If you disagreed and really believed I was distorting you, all you had to do is point out the flaws in my logic.

And about people siding with you, I understand your nostalgia. But even a couple of days ago you never had more than 2 people on your side at a time, one of which was claiming to have investigated you. Either way, your sloppiness has now caught up with you and you must claim a role.

5. YOu are lying through your teeth. You yourself gave a very good reason how I could KNOW FOR SURE VM is telling the truth without being a bad guy: post #161.

6. Nostalgia speaking again. Right now the only person voicing distrust about me is you.

7. By defending VM in the particular way I did, I made a HUGE statement about my role. Enough to make you, Diplomat, make a very good and sensible guess about my identity and allegiance. Now quit stalling and declare your role!

[Diplomat]

Look, I don't want to get into a deep debate about technicalities again because I don't want to waste time. I'm only making the case that radwulf should claim his role ahead of me. I will only respond to some of the points. I would really like for others to weigh in on this, namely Beoneknight, Doro, SlyRy, Starman (who should be replaced).

2. To this day you still haven't explained why my reaction to your first accusation was "typical bad guy behavior" instead of "typical radwulf behavior". For the record, I don't know that it was "typical radwulf behavior". I would have looked at older games, but they've been erased. I am/was proceding on the best of my recollection.

3. Yes, you did brush off accusations against Heffie, then for some reason became suspicious of her for the same reasons: I do agree that Heffie's pacifist behavior is a bit suspicious--but I'm more inclined to blame it on fear of ordered mass role-claims than diversionist tactics. and then: ... That's why as Mafia I would have had more reasons to try to prevent role declarations rather than cause them. I wouldn't have been able to get more than one or two declarations before my turn would have come.

And this is precisely the reason why I am suspecting Heffie. Check out some of her reflections on roles and role claiming: Contradiction?

4. SHOW HOW I distorted your posts. Every time I pointed out the slopiness in your alleged thinking I did so with very accurate logic. If you disagreed and really believed I was distorting you, all you had to do is point out the flaws in my logic. I did respond to your attempts to discredit me. Posts 116 and 161 are examples. And that's not saying anything about day 1. Nearly every time you tried to expose my alleged sloppiness, it turned out to be a result of mischaracterization or misinterpretation on your part. I elaborated on my statements that you've used as your premise. It's not just about pointing out logical flaws. You can have all the logic in the world, but if your premise is wrong, then you will come to the wrong conclusion. That's the essense of a straw man fallacy, something you've used liberally in your arguments. Starting with your characterization of my initial probe (i.e. saying it was a formal accusation in contrast to everyone else's interpretation), I've pointed out how you've used misrepresentations of my messages to come to the wrong conclusions. On top of that, it's not just your use of logic, but your behavior (e.g. what you're not saying) that shows your guilt. I'm not getting into specifics for reasons stated above.

5. Uh, that was sarcasm. Duh! Read the last sentence of 161 again, pretending I'm rolling my eyes. :) What I was trying to show is that you may have used Maestro's role as a starting point for inventing your own one.

7. Again, I was being sarcastic. Furthermore, notice that while I'm not reluctant to declare my role, radwulf conveniently left himself out of his declarations queue.

[radwulf]

2. I think you're lying. You don't have to look at older games to know something so obvious about my playing style.

3. You misunderstood me on this one. What I meant was: she is more likely to be scum afraid of mass role declarations as opposed to scum that engages in diversionist tactics. I don't know you how you managed to misunderstand when I repeatedly said her fear of role declarations makes me very suspicious of her.

4. Mafia is rarely of game of absolute certainty. More often premises have to be made based on what's most probable rather than what's certain. What you do is embrace that 5% chance and run wild with it, the way you did with your first accusation against me.

If I say: "would an experienced player like me defend his mafia buddy VM in a non-endgame situation, WITHOUT using game behavior arguments?" your come back is a farfetched, improbable, clichee alternative: "bad guys score good points by defending innocents, at least with the inexperienced players". And you use that very improbable alternative to say my premise is false. Give me a break.

And one more thing, 'cause you're throwing too much incorrect terminology this way: the essence of the strawman fallacy is attacking a position your opponent does not actually hold in order to claim victory. If I mistakenly thought your false accusations, votes, lies, and bad logic were not meant to kill me, an innocent subbie, my appologies for putting up a strawman.

5. Sarcasm or not, it shows you knew very well I don't have to (more likely) be a bad guy to know VM is innocent (as you alleged later, in post #176). Despite knowing that, you used it to attack me, desperate as you are to grasp at straws.

7. Maybe you should try being sarcastic more often. You seem to say smarter things, albeit accidentally.

[Diplomat]

OK, first of all, ever since post 161 I was leaning toward the possibility that you would be a traitor and VM would be innocent. You got it backwards. I was giving VM the benefit of the doubt because I thought you were guilty. I didn't take it as a premise that VM was innocent.

But that doesn't matter, because the funny thing is, I'm actually starting to believe you. Since your abilities seem to be associated with VM's, can you shed some light on VM's role declaration, "i am to heal the president.the surgery will be a success, as long as i am alive to see that day, otherwise, the president dies?" Does that mean the mission's over if he dies or is he misstating something?

[Diplomat]

Also, when I have more time, I'm going to review the thread and probably change my vote to Heffie, since radwulf and I are both suspicious of her.

[beoneknight]

OK, this isnt really getting us anywhere, we're back at day one. Radwulf is voting diplomat, diplomats voting for radwulf. I dont see enough evidence to vote either one of the two.
The only person i dont trust here is violinmaestro. he was vouched for by radwulf.

I'm going to ask again: radwulf how do you know that maestro is not mafia? my argument was presented in day two.

[HEffie]

What I meant was: she is more likely to be scum afraid of mass role declarations as opposed to scum that engages in diversionist tactics.
What are you guys talking about? I've been going on and on about finding info on people and basing ourselves on info we can gather during the day AKA roles rather than voting people off Diplomat style because they're FOR SURE guilty, or at least for sure guilty enough to die.
How did you come to these conclusions? I keep begging for a role claim to make sense of things and figure out who's lying because it's the only thing to be done and you, Diplomat, keep wasting time on who should go first with the role claim, as if it's that crucial. If you don't have anything to hide, then I don't see why you think someone else should go first, especially when everyone considers you the most suspicious. Why are you spending so much time trying to turn it so that radwulf goes first? What's so important to you in that?
Then all of a sudden you see that radwulf's also suspicious of me, so now you want me to go first, as long as you don't have to go first?
I feel like we're in grade 5 having some silly time wasting debate. JUST GO ALREADY!

[Diplomat]

Fine. I'm the captain of this vessel. I have the power to break a voting tie. I receive secret messages from someone on the outside associated with the president. Those messages contain a name. If I vote for that person, my vote counts twice in case of a tie. For the last two nights the name I received was Radwulf. I'd rather not identify the source of my voting instructions in case someone on the outside wants to claim that role.

Now about you, Heffie, how were you so sure that VM was innocent yesterday? I know you said that the mod likes to keep things interesting, but how did you know that that was the case?

unvote: radwulf
vote: Heffie

[doro5]

a. who did you get in night 1?
b. that explains why you never ended the day voting diplomat.

[Diplomat]

My first night's communications didn't specify anyone.

Man, it suddenly got real quiet in here. Everyone was eager to hear my role so we could move on, and now that we have it, we seem to be stalled. Come on, let's move it along.

Doro, do you have anything to say about Heffie?

[Sly Ry Guy]

Let me begin by appologizing for my lack of participation during the last couple of days, some important business came up that I needed to take care of.

I am guessing that Diplomat was correct when he assumed that Radwulf is the back-up surgeon, which in theory, clears both Radwulf and Violin. However, theories often fail to live up to real-world application. Also, why would someone working with the president on the outside want to kill off a Subbie?

Heffie, in the beginning of the game, you attempted to avert debates between both Diplomat and Radwulf as well as B1K and Violin, yet you want people to role claim. Why would you want to avert debates which quite possibly could have lead to a role claim? Perhaps you would like to set an example and role claim now. Here's your chance: vote heffie

[Diplomat]

About why my source would want to kill a subbie, I don't think that's his intention. I don't know what kind of information he has or how he comes to know it, but he probably doesn't know anything specific about radwulf.

[violinmaestro001]

ok, im inn to hear Heffie's role claim as well. im glad to hear that we got diplomats role claim straightened out.
but im still wondering about what is to become of starman, since he's not here.could he be the godfather, if there is such a thing in this game? thus the silence? just wondering, but im guessing due to inactivity he may be kicked out this night.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I looked at the Replacement sheets, and well, there aren't any. So unfortunately, I think starman will continue being an empty name on the list.

[doro5]

Once again, a number of things:
1. In my last post, I meant "never ended the day voting Radwulf".
2. about diplomat’s role:
-his role is obvious, which makes it believable.
-on second hand, a mafia could easily guess that that type of role would be believable, and thus, fake it.
- On third hand, a mafia wouldn’t want to take the risk that their is someone really has that role.
3. About HEffie, I am also eager to hear her role claim. After that we can decide what to do next.
4. And about starman, I hope that he will be replaced. But, if he pops up, has no point in his post, that means that it was only to avoid being replaced.

[Diplomat]

If there's only 2 traitors onboard, then SlyRy is only capable of finding 50% of them. That means that there's a good chance that anyone who hasn't claimed a role could be a suspect, whether they've been investigated or not. That leaves Heffie, Doro and Starman. (Here's another of my famous cliche statements.) So far I haven't been inclined to believe that Starman could be a bad guy, simply because the bad guys would have more of a reason to have some kind of presence in the discussion. I mean, to not participate at all if you're the mafia would be a kind of shameless thing to do. So in short, I think Doro should claim a role after Heffie. And what about replacing Starman with Sunsun?

(Doro, I think your phase, "never ended the day voting Diplomat," sounded more clever. ;) )

[doro5]

I don’t think that sunsun, who has already played the game, will be able to replace someone, even though he wasn’t mafia. but there was someone who wanted to replace VM when he was gone, no?

[HEffie]

Finally!
Just one quick question before we switch the topic of the conversation off you for now and onto me and my role and jazz, I was just wondering about this:
My first night's communications didn't specify anyone.
Does that mean that you still "made contact" with this informer, but he just didn't specify a name or what? Or do you only get contacted when they want you to vote for somebody? What happens if you don't vote for that person?

[Diplomat]

Yeah, I got contacted the first night, but the message was that there was no name for me. I'm not obligated to vote for the person I get. My vote is just a regular vote if I don't.

If I didn't know better, I'd say you were stalling, Heffie. :)

[beoneknight]

I agree with diplomat on this one. Let's hear the role claim. Here's extra motivation: vote heffie


though i'm not at all convinced about violinmaestro...

[Daemon]

Thanx for letting me know that I've forgot to update the thread name w/ the correct deadline. Anyway, that's roughly 10 hours from now.

[Diplomat]

Well, she hasn't claimed a role yet and time's running out. And I'm not going to stick around much longer in case I need to change my vote.

I want to point out that there are still two votes cast for me, Radwulf's and Heffie's. One more is necessary to make a voting tie. I hope I wasn't wrong in changing my mind about Radwulf and that he's just short on time to change his vote or to weigh in.

[radwulf]

unvote: Diplomat
Not sure if Heffie deserves to die yet, but I am very tempted to make it happen.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Though reluctant to lynch anybody so far, the crew decided today that the peaceful work-related relationships have to change. Probably afraid that girls are more sensitive to pressure and God knows what's a girls gonna do in case she snaps under the burden of recent events, the crew decided that an all-male complement is better suited for the mission. So they've strangled poor Heffie right at her Radio Operator desk, her head hitting it hard afterwards, her nose landing right on the SOS button.

Outside the sub, the day passed as it were a normal, work&chat day, with nothing of a particular nature that forced everybody to get to the bottom of this and save their own lives and the President's.

Heffie, Radio Operator, is strangled by the misoginistic pigs tired of "Girl-powah" clishees.

NIGHT 03 - ends Feb 27h 10:00 hrs
Please send your targets to mafia61(@)salajan<.>ro.
Unsent targets will be lost.

SORRY FOR THE POOR VOTES COUNT I DID THE FIRST 4 TIMES.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Slowly but not slowly enough, the crewmen were getting picked off one by one. Though the night seemed quiet enough, the dreaded result of a shot that was never heard was quite clear in the morning. Radwulf, the mission's Immunologist, was shot in the back apparently with a gun fitted with a silencer. As for who did it, everybody seemed at a loss.

In the Area 51 Complex, the night had gone by much like the day before, uneventful.

Radwulf, Immunologist, is found shot in the back with a gun with a silencer.

It's now Day 04. There are 6 players remaining.
4 votes for instant lynch. 2 votes for deadline lynch. 1 vote for role claims.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Alrighty, it's really really quiet. First off, I investigated Violin, and found him guilty.

Violin, do you have any information to put either in your defense or about the sub in general?
Diplomat, who's name did you get? Unfortunately, I don't think we can use it to determine who the mafia is, since Radwulf was a subbie, but perhaps we can use it to determine who is innocent.
B1K, who did you follow?
Doro and Starman, you both haven't claimed roles yet, perhaps you have some information?

[doro5]

Slyry. I do have info. And its making me think you might a random investigator.
I have info that VM was not a part in last night’s murder. If you’re a normal investigator, then maybe there is a vigilante within us? We have not heard from SD for a long time, so ill vote staman for a wake up call.

[doro5]

Plus, it adds up. You remember Radwulf saying that:
I have very good reasons to believe Violinmaestro is innocent.
And Radwulf’s innocent, which makes him reliable.

[beoneknight]

ok, i think we're at the endgame here. The only person I trust at the moment We can only have two schemes here.

We have two options here:
1) doro5 and violinmaestro are mafia,
2) slyry and starman.

The only person i trust at this moment is diplomat. He seemed genuine with both voting for radwulf as well as taking his vote off of him.


"wake up votes" are not the reason to vote for people right now. I'm going to think about this for a bit, and hopefully we'll decide which one of the above options is true.

[beoneknight]

sorry, in the first line i misstyped, the only person i trust at the moment is diplomat

[Diplomat]

Last night, my instructions were to vote for SlyRy. But I think it's obvious that there's no significance to the names I get.

Doro5, I think you need to tell us what you know. There's little reason to believe that SlyRy is not a normal investigator, unless he's lying about the whole thing. And if he's honest, then you're lying and trying to protect VM. Vote: Doro5 Unfortunately, Radwulf didn't tell us why he thought that VM was innocent. For all we know, he might have had misleading information about him. So I wouldn't put much weight on radwulf's defense, considering how implausible VM's role claim sounded. Other than that, I agree with Beoneknight's assessment of the identities of the traitors.

[doro5]

There's little reason to believe that SlyRy is not a normal investigator,
Unfortunately, Radwulf didn't tell us why he thought that VM was innocent. For all we know, he might have had misleading information about him.
Wait, so you’re saying that Radwulf might have misleading information, but slyry doesn’t?
Well then, if he is a normal investigator, then im innocent, because he cleared me already. Actually, if we presume that there are 2 mafia, and slyry’s investigations are true, then we are left with starman, b1k, and VM- from which one is innocent and the others are guilty. I await you’re comment.
BTW, slyry, what’s your title?
And my role claim, as you wish. Im the sub mechanic. I can check one person each night to see if they left their rooms. These are my investigations so far:
Night 1: starman did not leave his room, no one died.
Night 2: b1k did leave his room, sunsun died.
Night 3: VM did not leave his room, no one died.
night 4: VM did not leave his room, Radwulf died.
By that there are 2 options:
1. VM is not mafia.
2. HEffie was killed by a vigilante. Something I doubt.
Anything else?

[doro5]

Oh, and I also have 3 air tanks which I can use to repair the sub.

[doro5]

Shouldn’t starman be replaced? There was the guy who wanted to replace VM when he was gone, no?
b1k, what makes you trust diplomat so much?

[Diplomat]

OK. unvote: Doro5

Wait, so you’re saying that Radwulf might have misleading information, but slyry doesn’t?
Well then, if he is a normal investigator, then im innocent, because he cleared me already. Actually, if we presume that there are 2 mafia, and slyry’s investigations are true, then we are left with starman, b1k, and VM- from which one is innocent and the others are guilty. I await you’re comment. Radwulf didn't have any investigative results. I'm guessing he was our doctor. One possibility may be that he saved VM on a night that no one was killed, and that's why he thought that he was innocent. But if SlyRy is lying or if he's not normal, then who's the normal investigator? Starman? Right now, I doubt it because SlyRy's results seem genuine. Furthermore, even if VM is guilty, then he doesn't have to leave his room to kill someone. Sometimes only one of the bad guys is designated as the one doing the killing. The others aren't detectable as having activity at night.

[Diplomat]

Also, Doro, why would you need to repair the sub?

[doro5]

Sometimes only one of the bad guys is designated as the one doing the killing. The others aren't detectable as having activity at night.
didnt know that.
Also, Doro, why would you need to repair the sub?
i have no idea. maybe the bad guys, inside and out, can cause that.

[Diplomat]

We have two options here:
1) doro5 and violinmaestro are mafia,
2) slyry and starman.
Well, it can't be the 2nd option because SlyRy was voting for Starman sometime in day 2 or 3 because of his inactivity and seemed really concerned about it. But it can't be the first option either if Doro is telling the truth. It can't be VM and SlyRy because VM was voting for SlyRy early in the first day. So I guess that leaves Beoneknight and SlyRy. I can't think of any inconsistencies so far that would disprove that possibility.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I am an executive officer. I was assigned to the sub as a sort of 'secret service' agent to make sure everything runs on the sub smoothly, so we can successfully save the president. Each night I can access the crew manifest and determine if someone is innocent or not.
Due to the fact that I have investigated everyone alive except B1K, and only Violin came up guilty, I am inclined to think one of two things.

Either Violin and B1k are mafia, which is unlikely, since Violin and B1k have been at each other's throats, although that would make a good strategy for the Mafia.

The second possibility is that someone turned up innocent that was actually guilty. That would mean that Violin along with Starman, Doro, or Diplomat are mafia.

If I were to place the three in order from most likely to least, I would say Starman is the most likely, what else would explain his long absence. Next would be Doro, since he is supporting Violin. Also, his role doesn't sound very geniune. I can see why we would need a mechanic, but why would we need to repair our sub? Wouldn't the mafia die with all of us if they sabotaged the sub? Lastly, Diplomat is only on my suspicions list because I investigated him. Although I suppose Sub Captain is an obvious role, it would be risky to choose it as a fake identity, since it would be likely that there was a real one.

I suppose I could be a random investigator, but I think that that is incredibly unlikely. Unless SunSun was the real investigator, since his role also includes the word officer, in which case, I could be random.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I was reviewing the older posts, and noticed something:
Speaking of summaries: (the voters, not the voted!)

BOK-day 1-starman, VM. Day 2-VM. Day 3-no-one.
Diplomat-day 1-radwulf, no-one. Day 2-radwul, VM. Day 3-radwulf.
Doro5- day 1-no-one. Day 2-BOK, Radwulf, no-one. Day 3-no-one.
HEffie- day 1-BOK. Day 2-diplomat. Day 3-diplomat.
Radwulf- day 1-sunsun, diplomat. Day 2-diplomat. Day 3- diplomat.
SlyRyGuy- day 1-VM, Radwulf, starman. Day 2- starman, starman. Day 3-no-one.
Starman- day 1- no-one. Day 2-no-one. Day 3-no-one.
Sunsun- day 1-no-one.
VM- day 1-slyryguy, BOK. Day 2-BOK, BOK, starman.
Now, what can we learn?

Heffie and Radwulf are the only people who voted for Diplomat in the entire game, and well, they also happen to be the two people that died last. Not necessarily grounds for suspicion, but I thought I would mention that. Also, B1k might have possibly bandwagonned Heffie, since he was the third vote. However, many of us had our suspicions against Heffie, including myself, Diplomat and Radwulf, as well as B1k, so this might also be nothing.

But just as Violin said at the beginning, nothing is random. While it may be coincidence, it just might be a sign of scummy-ness.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Outside the sub, things got ugly. Enraged by Csergogaby's behaviour and based on a number of subjectively sound reasons, the lab personnel made quick work of the Vice-president. It was only later, when they searched his room, that they actually could get their hand on hard evidence that the Vice-President was plotting against the President, hoping to vacate this position to which he can acceed without nation-wide elections as a replacement for the most powerful man on the planet.

THE DAY CONTINUES HERE, WHILE OUTSIDE THE NIGHT LASTS MORE, FOR SYNCRONIZATION PUROPOSES.

[beoneknight]

results from doro:

Night 1: starman did not leave his room, no one died.
Night 2: b1k did leave his room, sunsun died.
Night 3: VM did not leave his room, no one died.
night 4: VM did not leave his room, Radwulf died.


By that there are 2 options:
1. VM is not mafia.
2. HEffie was killed by a vigilante. Something I doubt.
Anything else?

result from slyry:
violinmaestro = guilty


OK, i think i've jsut had a breakthrough:

lets look at the above data:

let's assume doro is tellin the truth, then violinmaestro never left his room. OK, some might say not all mafia members have to leave the room.... but assuming that there are two mafias left (if there were 3 the game would be over right now), the one that would not have to leave the room would be the godfather, i think. Then violinmaestro would be the godfather. But WAIT! that's impossible since slyry found him guilty. From this, it becomes clear that doro and violinmaestro are on the same team. Wheather or not they're mafia or not, i'm unsure.
I was leaning towards trusting doro, but didnt trust violinmaestro, so i dont know.

Also, 3 investigators are waaay too many in the game of 9. So someone is lying about being an investigator. So it is either doro or slyry.

[doro5]

the one that would not have to leave the room would be the godfather, i think. Then violinmaestro would be the godfather. But WAIT! that's impossible since slyry found him guilty. From this, it becomes clear that doro and violinmaestro are on the same team.
1. You can’t be sure that the godfather is the one who leaves the room.
2. Why does VM has to be the godfather? Where did you find that piece of info? You should’ve said that I am the godfather, it sounds much more convincing.
Also, 3 investigators are waaay too many in the game of 9. So someone is lying about being an investigator. So it is either doro or slyry.
The thing is, these are different types of investigators. You can classify as an investigator to, you know.

[beoneknight]

doro, i think you've misread my post....

The thing is, these are different types of investigators. You can classify as an investigator to, you know.

yes, that's why i said that there are 3 of them. So far we have me, you, and slyry. I still think that there is no way that in the game of 9 peole would there be 3 people with investigative abilities.

1. You can’t be sure that the godfather is the one who leaves the room.

of course! but if u follow my previous post (i'm not going to rewrite the whole thing, just read it carefully) you will see that it's clear that you and violinmaestro are on the same team, which is different from the team that slyry is in. I'm not sure which one of you is a good guy, and which one is a bad guy.

You should’ve said that I am the godfather, it sounds much more convincing.

a huge portion of mylast post was dedicated to the fact that maestro CANNOT be the godfather. I even put that in bold!!!!

[Diplomat]

Well, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't stumped. Let's see if I can work things out while I'm writing this.

Initially when I read SlyRy's role claim, I was very inclined to believe that he was guilty. First, his role title explains why he came out as an investigator so early on. Assuming he was guilty, he knew that Sunsun, the Political Officer, was the investigator on the president's side, and so he knew there would be no other investigators to challenge his role claim. Why would he come out in defense of me early in day 2 when I wasn't in any real trouble? To establish his credibility early in the mission. Second, his assignment as "a sort of 'secret service' agent" sounds more like a spy role designed to sabotage the mission rather than to monitor it. And another problem is with the element of the crew manifest. How can one determine who's guilty from the crew manifest? The crew manifest would more likely list someone's duties onboard rather than their affiliation (guilt), something that a mafia spy would find useful. So it all made sense. Sunsun's, the political officer's, job was probably to determine a person's political affiliation, while SlyRy's, is to determine their exact role, making his espionage skills perfect for the traitors. It also made sense that SlyRy and Beoneknight were like the first two, and the least hesistant, to claim a role.

But then I saw what happened on the outside and things became more blurry. See, the Vice President was my superior and he was sending me orders saying whom to vote for. But the revelation of his motives changed everything. Because he was plotting against the president, did he know who was innocent onboard and who wasn't, and therefore was only pitching me the names of innocents? Because if he was, that means that SlyRy is innocent and the traitors are probably Maestro and Doro. But if that's true, then there's still the matter of Radwulf's defense of Maestro. My guess is that Radwulf tried to save him on night 1 and no one died that night. But there could be other reasons why no one died. Also, I have to admit that the thought about the VP being against the president did occur to me, but it was too inconceivable for a number of reasons.

So I guess we have to choose between SlyRy and Maestro today. With that VP revelation in conjunction with my voting orders, I'm leaning toward voting Maestro. But he doesn't seem to be present at the moment. And I really don't want to waste the day because he's absent. So those are my observations.

[Diplomat]

Oh, and I also have 3 air tanks which I can use to repair the sub. Are those air tanks really for repairing the sub or for allowing you to escape after you destroy it?

[doro5]

Are those air tanks really for repairing the sub or for allowing you to escape after you destroy it?
:confused: What? I don’t get it. Is this some kind of joke? Even if you think that I am mafia, what’s the point in that post?
And the air tanks have another use, which I will reveal tomorrow.

[Diplomat]

Doro, maybe you should tell us the whole story today. There very well may not be a tomorrow if we don't do the right thing today. SlyRy asked why you would need to repair the sub if the bad guys would go down with it after they sabotage it. Well, the existence of the air tanks provides the answer.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Doro, it is late enough in the game that any information that is not given out today may not be given out at all. Your desire to withhold information is not benefitial to you, as it brings suspicion, or to the rest of the sub, as it leaves us without valuable information to discover the mafia.

I am also curious why Violin has been inactive, as well, I suppose, as B1k, although he did post on Monday. Unfortunately, we still have heard no word from Starman. But here is something highly suspicious. According to Starman's public profile, his last login was yesterday, on February 28. If he logged in, he must have checked the board, why else would you log in? So, why hasn't he posted?

This is really suspicious to me, and I want to know why he hasn't posted. Perhaps that's why he hasn't been replaced, because he is checking the posts. Vote Starman

As for the questions of my role, I am a secret service agent. In normal times, I would protect the president. However, since I cannot directly protect the president, due to his current state, I instead have been assigned to make sure that nothing goes wrong so we can successfully remove the tumor and cure him. I suppose the fact that I must access the crew manifest to determine if someone is innocent or not does sound like a useful mafia power, but how else would someone be able to determine if someone is guilty?

[beoneknight]

you say you've found violinmaestro guilty, and yet you vote starman for inactivity?! this makes 0 sense to me.

Vote slyry

if u really did find him guilty, you would of voted for maestro.

[beoneknight]

can someone change my last post, since i think it's against the rules to edit my own posts, i meant to bold vote slyry, not put it in quotes

[Sly Ry Guy]

Although I did find Violin guilty, I think there is a lot more evidence against Starman. Also, investigations are often flawed. I am much more suspicious of Starman. In addition, I wanted to give Violin a chance to defend himself. As for Starman, I doubt he's coming back.

[Diplomat]

You guys are killin' me here! :) Just when I think I've figured it all out, a new wrinkle appears. OK, it makes sense that Sly Ry is guilty. But if that's the case, then his accomplice can only be Beoneknight the way I see it. Yet Beone just voted for Sly Ry.

Although I did find Violin guilty, I think there is a lot more evidence against Starman. Also, investigations are often flawed. I am much more suspicious of Starman. In addition, I wanted to give Violin a chance to defend himself. As for Starman, I doubt he's coming back. I agree with Beone that it makes no sense to vote for Starman. What do you mean there's a lot more evidence against Starman? What kind of evidence beats an investigation result? And what do you mean investigations are often flawed? If an investigation is flawed, it tends to be a false negative (innocent) rather than a false positive (guilty). Plus, you're suspicious of Starman for inactivity while letting Violin off the hook even though he never showed up to defend himself?

I'll be back later after I've mulled this over some more.

[Sly Ry Guy]

I suppose both Diplomat and Beone are right. Perhaps I had gone crazy for a moment, or just simply stopped thinking. Unfortunately, unvote starman and vote violin probably won't exactly clear me. However, from any standpoint, it makes a lot more sense.

[beoneknight]

it makes sense for slyry to be mafia:

1) when did he come out with his first 'investigative' result? was diplomat in any real danger of being voted off? NO! So he role claimed without any real reason or need for it.

2) the thing that cleared everything for me, was when he voted starman for inactivity. What TRUE invesigator not vote for the target he got guilty at the end of the game?!

[Diplomat]

Before I cast my vote, I'd like to ask:

Doro, are you going to keep your vote on Starman? If not, who are you planning to vote for?

Violinmaestro (if you come back), who are you planning to vote for?

Beoneknight, don't you think the fact that I was ordered to vote for SlyRy by the traitor VP clears Sly Ry?

[doro5]

Currently, ill keep my vote for starman. After what you told me, I suspect VM again. But actually, I must correct one of my previous posts: if we assume that slyry is a normal investigator, then the mafia are b1k & VM. Another important detail to that assumption is that b1k is trying to prove that it is "reasonable for slyry to be mafia". But we can’t be sure yet. Thou it is a very important detail.
About the other use of my air tanks, there is a good reason why I am not telling you what it is, but its nothing informational or useful for our queries

[beoneknight]

Diplomat, i dont think it clears him. Since radwulf died that night and he was innoscent, they knew that you would know that those targets probably are baseless. i'm sticking with my vote.

[Diplomat]

Beone, remember, the target I received came from the outside the same night that radwulf died. They probably didn't know that he was going to die. Moreover, it was impossible to tell that the VP was against the prez while he was alive.

But I'll venture to vote: Sly Ry Guy anyway, with fingers crossed. Not sure if this vote will count twice. Unless VM or Starman shows up, we're not going to get any more critical info.

[Diplomat]

If SlyRy, or anyone else, has anything left to say, now would be a good time to say it. So far it makes more sense to vote for SlyRy over VMaestro, but not by much. I, for one, am not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that we're on the right track. So just in case we're not, it might be a good idea to try to clear oneself.

[Sly Ry Guy]

Out of the four players who have been declared the most suspicious, VM, Doro, Starman, and myself, I am the only one who is actually coming to the table and presenting information to help the town. While I post information to help us lynch a mafia-man, the other three simply refuse to post to avoid attracting attention.

Doro had mentioned that he was the Ship Mechanic, but he is unwilling to tell us his whole role. Is it perhaps that he doesn't know how to rename it so it doesn't sound like a mafia-role? How about violin? The only defense he had was that Radwulf had a hunch that he was innocent. Now that Radwulf is dead, Violin has yet to say anything. Starman is still as inactive as ever. All three players are far more suspicious than myself. They are all inactive, and all have not given reasons for their inactivity.

There are six players left, and most likely, there are two mafia. If we kill off the wrong player, in this case, myself, then we will lose, because the mafia will kill off someone during the night, leaving only four players remaining, two of which will be mafia. It is essential that we vote for a true mafia player today, or none at all.

[violinmaestro001]

Im mobile,cam only type,could read till post 201.I reinforce i am the surgeon in which case slyry's investigation is incorrect,meaning that i still am on the good side.Vote starman(please edit 2 bold)lets lynch him this time 4 good.

[violinmaestro001]

Im mobile,cam only type,could read till post 201.I reinforce i am the surgeon in which case slyry's investigation is incorrect,meaning that i still am on the good side.Vote starman(please edit 2 bold)lets lynch him this time 4 good.

[violinmaestro001]

Im mobile,cam only type,could read till post 201.I reinforce i am the surgeon in which case slyry's investigation is incorrect,meaning that i still am on the good side.Vote starman(please edit 2 bold)lets lynch him this time 4 good.

[violinmaestro001]

Ive been trying 2 get here 4 the last 2 hours on my phone.Success.I can only type and ive gotten till post 215 so i dont see all.I reinstate that i am the surgeon thus slyry,s investigation is false. I vote slyry(please edit 2 bold)

[Diplomat]

Well, I haven't learned anything new from SlyRy or VMaestro. I applaud VM for managing to get his message in from the "battlefield", as cumbersome as it was to do on his phone. :D So I guess that's a 3rd vote for SlyRy.

As for VM being one of the suspicious players, radwulf and Heffie both defended him. His elaboration of his role did seem honest to me, if not completely thorough. But if you really did find him guilty, then you would be dead serious about denouncing him as one of the mafia, not simply calling his behavior suspicious and then half-heartedly switching your vote back and forth, SlyRy.

[Daemon]

http://www.save.ro/mafia/bio.png
Wondering why Starman did not leave his quarters in so many days, the crew broke the door down and found that poor Starman hanged himself from the ceiling. On the table, a letter to his wife, stating that he was sorry, but he couldn't cope with the death of his comrade, the other Russian Scientist, outside the sub, and he took his own life feeling guilty for Crisd's death.

Feeling sorry for the unfortunate commie, the crewman accused SlyRyGuy of driving the poor man crazy, by inciting the crew against him and turned on the Ex.O. in a blink of an eye. As the day was coming to an end, they made short work of him. Searching his room cleared any doubts they might have had about his innocence: he was closely working with the Vice-President to kill the President by preparing to incite a mutiny and relieve the captain of his command, thus taking over his prerrogatives.

Outside the sub, Creativemind, Radio Operator, was found dead, shot in the back through a pillow to cover the noise.

StarmanDeluxe, Russian Scientist, is found dead in his room, where the mod killed him.
SlyRyGuy, Executive Officer, got lynched as a result of his dirty plotting and scheming.

NIGHT 05 - ends Mar 6th 10:00 hrs
Please send your targets to mafia61(@)salajan<.>ro.
Unsent targets will be lost.

[Daemon]

It looks that the mission it's coming to an end. Following the bloodiest day since the mission started, the bloodiest night left the sub with the exact minimal crew need to operate the submarine to the designated extraction zone, and to safety. Considering this a good news, the bad news is that the mission's primary objective could not be accomplised any more, due to the unfortunate events that took place aboard the vessel. Last evening, nothing was indicating the showdown that was about to happen. In the middle of the night, half of the crew was working on plotting couses, or repairing the sub, the other half was thinking evil thoughts. It's a good thing that the murederous half was not thinking of the working half, but instead, the two crewmen that represented the angry half were thinking about each other. Tired of thinking, one of them took the knife hidden in his video camera and left his room. Much to his surprise, he was not going to need to walk all the way to his target's room, because his target was just outside his door targeting him with a SALG (sustained action laser gun) that was intented to heal the President. The moment eye contact was made, the SALG connected the two with an increasingly bright modulating red ray. The unfortunate man on the receiving side only had time to throw himself at the Laser Surgeon and stab him with all the power of the desperate dying man. Both of them having sustained mortal wounds, they collapsed next to each other, and the thing that ended it all was the Photo Jurnalist's last few words: "Cool flash! I've gotta get me one of these!"

Now, having no trained medical personnel left aboard, the mission must be aborted and a new and more wisely selected team must return and get the job done. Though not allowing the infiltrated agents to harm the President was a great accomplishment in its own, the Captain and his Mechanic must now get the sub back in one piece and rely on the good reasoning of the outside team of scientists to eliminate see this through. And that might not be entirely impossible, with the dirty Vice-President dead and without any murders last night.

ViolinMaestro, Laser Surgeon, is stabbed to death while shooting his SALG at
BeoneKnight, Photo Jurnalist, an undercover assasin aiming at killing the President.

GAME OVER.

IT'S A DRAW.


Don't forget, these are linked games. The winning conditions, the inter-game relations and the roles list will be posted as soon as the RO game is over, or sooner if I decide that they can't influence it. I'm not even sure It's appropriate to allow the post-game talk to begin just yet. For the moment, the topic will remain closed.

[Daemon]

In the lab outside, thing got to a sudden ending. Three out of four remaining personnel voted and lynched Avataru, the Medic that took care of them so far. Then, Kitzkhan, Alien Observer beamed up to his Mothership just as Unikul, a Mad Scientist, was injecting Andyy, the Anesthetist, with a lethal compound, so that he would be the last, best and only genius of the world, which he intends on ruling using his one of a kind glorious devices that are surely to be invented soon. From now on, all the inhabitants of Earth, including the President, must bow before the might of Unikul, the greatest ruler of all!

Outside, UNIKUL, The MAD SCIENTIST, WINS!

The President lives, but he was not cured.

[Daemon]

================TOWN==================
Captain
-He is the military commander of the mission. His prerogatives allow him a decisive vote in case of ties, and he also can save one person from being lynched by sending his option during the day, and this would apply only if that person would have the required votes for a valid lynch.
-As he is subjected to the chain of command, he must vote only the person indicated by his direct superior, the Vice-president, abstain from voting, or to vote somebody else without the double vote feature.
-He can be relieved of his duty by a his second in command, whose name is revealed to him.

Radio Operator
-He can choose to use his equipment in such a way that made him able to track a person so he can detect if his target would have made radio transmissions from the submarine.

Submarine Mechanic
-He is the Sub’s maintenance and repair crewman. He has 3 air tanks which he can use to dive outside submarine to make repairs in case they’d be needed, but he can use them to become immune at night.
-Instead he can check anybody’s quarters to find out if they had nocturnal activities. (unlimited shots)

Laser Surgeon
-He was given a spare mobile laser gun for use if the outer gun would have gotten damaged. It has one charge he can use to kill anybody he thinks it's a threat to the President and the mission.
-He is very important! Once the subversive elements are gone, he must accomplish his mission of curing the President’s tumor, with 100% chances of healing the president with the sub’s mounted laser gun.

Immunologist
-Specialized the human immune system, he was brought to help avoid the immune reaction of the President’s body. He is also the ship’s medic. He can heal any player that was attacked during the night.
-He has 50% chances of healing the president with the sub mounted laser gun, if he’s the last doctor.

Political Officer
-He is aboard with the sole purpose of seeing to the welfare of the president by supervising everybody’s actions. He can interrogate at night any player, to find out if he has secret orders or not.

================MAFIA==================
Photo Journalist
-He is in charge of the Subversionists’ mission inside the President. An assassin under the fabricated alibi of a photographer, he takes pictures of nocturnal activities, finding out who visited his target.
-Being treated as an Observer, he’s not subjected to military rules, having immunity to investigations.

Executive Officer
-He receives secret, direct orders from the Vice-president, to eliminate the President’s loyalists. He can send and receive short radio messages to/from the Vice-president during the night. (through the mod).
-He can access the crew manifest to find out the exact occupation of any person, during the night.
-He can incite mutiny, relieving the captain of his duty, taking over his prerogatives, at the time (the night) of his choosing, but his name would be revealed to the captain.

================OTHERS==================
Russian Scientist
-Soviet Scientist secretly trained in the Siberian Mind Research Facilities, he is in permanent communication with the outside Russian Scientist, telepathically, at night. They were received as a sign of good faith from the americans, but their purpose is to get all the secret technology inside the lab, by eliminating the others.
-He can mind controll anybody, inside or outside, rendering him motionless for a night, efectively blocking his abilities for one night. He cannot influence the same person for two nights in a row.

[Daemon]

Overall winning conditions :

The Mafia wins if they win either one of the two games.
The Town wins if they win both inside and outside games.
The Russian Scientists win if either of them wins his game.

Local winning conditions :

On the sub it’s a draw if the town wins without surgeons.
The Mad Scientist wins if he’s the last man living in the lab.
The Alien Observer does not influence the head count.

Remember, multiple wins could occure due to multiple simultaneous missions.

I hope you liked the game and I hope nobody feels wronged. Don't forget, the game is made of weaker and stronger roles so that they create a balance. I hope that modding to the best of my abilities was good enough.

I'd like to point out that in both games there was a situation that could mean victory for the Mafia: inside the sub SlyRyGuy should have take over the Captain's duties the day he was lyched, having a double vote and the lynch pardon ability, and in the lab Zero should not have voted for Csergogaby the day he was lynched.

[Daemon]

Moderator's Award (who's watching the game from the shadows) goes to Violinmaestro.

Also, Congratulations to the winners, Diplomat and Doro5.

[Diplomat]

Cool game. Thanks for modding, Daemon. I say every game should be run in parallel from now on. :)

But on the subject of plausibility, I'm not sure why the VP would ever want to plot against the president. He's in ideological agreement with the president in almost every case, and he has a lot of influence without moving up the chain of command.

Also, in hindsight, my signature may not have been the most appropriate for this game. :)

[Daemon]

Yeah, well, why would any neighbour wanna attack another or all sorts of other things that are going on in the story of Mafia games. Anyway, I am trying to build logical mafia games on top of mafia games logic. All in all, it all comes down to motivation and means. Plus, Mafia must have something to cover its back and there always must be room for doubt. What I mean is that no role should be credible only based on its name, logic and previous play must be what gets anybody off the hook. Remember the Zorro move? :) That's a good example for the void between what a player says and what a player does.

I know the game was not perfect, but I really really tried to give everybody a chance to win.

P.S. Don't stop there w/ the criticism. I may not take it very well, but I want it nevertheless.